It is currently 28 Mar 2024, 06:43


New Topic Add Reply
Author Message
Old 2/3/4wt glass rods
Post 08 Jul 2021, 21:37 • #1 
New Member
Joined: 05/18/21
Posts: 8
Most of the "vintage" glass flyrods are 5wt and up. When did mainstream rod makers start to offer 2/3/4wt rods? 70's? 80's?
Was that strictly because the glass improved and the walls could be made thinner, or was it just a lack of demand from anglers who wanted stouter rods?


Top
  
Quote
Post 09 Jul 2021, 02:44 • #2 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
The early light line rods were made of cane. Leonard was known for very light, delicate rods. Heddon made their Featherlights for HEH or F lines. The high end builders offered 'light trout' tapers. Most blue collar cane rods were a bit, er, beefier. By the mid80s cane rods were making a revival, particularly light line, finely built rods from custom builders.

The all purpose, vintage glass rod was marked for HDH or HCH lines, roughly 6/7 weight. Lighter rods marked for HEH or E lines were less common. Consulting the line conversion tables of the 60s/70s states an HEH is a 5 weight line. I often like rods marked for HEH lines better with a DT4. As always, your personal preference makes a difference in what line you like on what rod. I have 50s era Heddons and 60s era Phillipsons that are great with a DT4. By the 70s Fisher made glass marked for 3 & 4 weight lines. Hardy Fibatube sold a 3-1/2 weight. There are many posts here about light line rods (forum search is your friend).

By the late 80s glass slipped into a dark age with a few glimmers of light. Scott made quality glass into the 90s. Lamiglas offered their light 'honey glass' rods and custom blanks. In the late 90s Dennis Francke worked with Mark Steffen to create a few hundred custom built glass rods (Glastech). Japanese anglers created glass yamame rods which were impossible to access from Europe or America. Until a slow fiberglass revival began in the early 2000s the pickings were slim.

The 2/3/4 weight glass rods we see now are a result of angler demand. A good, light line, glass rod is a delicate fishing instrument. Improvements in materials and construction techniques originally created for graphite have spilled back to glass. Light line, glass rods are much more common now than in the 60s/70s/80s.


Tom


Top
  
Quote
Post 09 Jul 2021, 06:02 • #3 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1231
Location: Fresno, CA
I have an Orvis Golden Eagle that is 6'6" and is rated for a 4 weight. I believe it was available from 1972-'74. I also have a Abercrombie and Fitch Banty 44 that I think came with a DT4 line but can't remember for sure. I also don't remember when this rod was sold but I think its also late '60s early 70s? Maybe someone else who knows could chime in.


Top
  
Quote
Post 09 Jul 2021, 09:36 • #4 
New Member
Joined: 05/18/21
Posts: 8
thanks for the wealth of information Tom. Great write-up


Top
  
Quote
Post 09 Jul 2021, 10:00 • #5 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/15/06
Posts: 804
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Winston Stalkers (3/4 wt) were available from the late 70s through the 80s. My 7’ 3pc Stalker, ordered via several great conversations with Tom Morgan, was my only glass rod from 1980 until I got a Glastech 6.5’ 3wt from Dennis Franke in 1996.


Top
  
Quote
Post 11 Jul 2021, 06:47 • #6 
Sport
Joined: 09/06/18
Posts: 61
Location: The Appalachian Mountains of WV/PA
Hardy JET Midge 6'3" 3.5 wt
Hardy Fibatube 6'1" 3.5wt
Hardy Fibalite Perfection 7'2" 4wt


Top
  
Quote
Post 11 Jul 2021, 11:32 • #7 
Master Guide
Joined: 06/07/12
Posts: 865
Location: US-CA
The Hardy glass rods listed above would date starting the late 1960’s. If you go waaaay back, I think the first year that Hardy Marvel cane rods were made was 1922 and they were intended for light lines like 3 and 4 wt.

My guess is that old-school USA department-store glass rods were marketed towards customers fishing bigger water for bigger fish, so you might not see a lot of light line stuff from, say, South Bend...


Top
  
Quote
Post 11 Jul 2021, 23:55 • #8 
Master Guide
Joined: 01/04/18
Posts: 397
Location: Belair Maryland/Swanton Maryland
Here’s My quiver of light line vintage rods to ponder.
While not 2-3 wts any one of these rods would throw a Wf4 all day long if needed .
The Fisher Utralight throws a 3wt like a champ,but I like it with a 4


From the smallest to largest
Abercrombie Banty 4ft4inch
Phillipson Master G-MF60c 6ft
South Bend Graflex ( glass/graphite) 6.5ft
Shakespeare professional #923 6.5ft
Shakespeare panfish special #1245 6.5ft
Shakespeare presidential #920 7ft
Shakespeare panfish special #1245 7ft
Timberline/LL bean Yellowstone pack rod 7ft
Fisher ultralight 7ft
Fenwick FL84-5 7ft
South Bend 3130 7.5ft
Cortland 530 7.5ft
Cortland 502 7.5ft
Heddon Pal standard #30 7.5ft
Heddon pro weight #8383 7.5ft
L.M. Dickson Dusty Miller 7.5ft
Horrocks and Ibbotson custom dlx 7.75ft
Heddon Pal #T30 8.5Ft


Hey Motosacto check out my vintage South Bend 7.5ft HEH/5 weight

Here’s My
South bend composite glass/graphite 4wt I’ve had since the 80s..


Just some random rod porn..




I have a few other light line rods but there are in the rod shop at the moment.
They are out there you’ve just got to turn over a few stones to find the sweeties ..
Ottobahn


Top
  
Quote
Post 13 Jul 2021, 16:36 • #9 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1231
Location: Fresno, CA
Those are some great rods there Ottobahn!

Here are a couple of my favorite vintage lightweights.

Heddon Pal Pro Weight 8381 flyweight #5 7' Though its rated for a 5wt it casts best with a wf4/dt3 Its a really flexy, nimble rod. Probably my Favorite of my metal ferrule fly rods.









This is the Orvis Golden Eagle 4 wt I've not fished this rod that much and not in the last couple years. But when I did I used a dt3 line, Its a very full flexing. I love this rod, I'd love to find another one, or the H.L. Leonard version.





This is the A&F Banty 44 1 oz. I've not fished it but I've casted it on the lawn and it does pretty good with a wf4 and a dt3. If I were to fish I'd probably go for the dt3.





Next to the GE Orvis.



I have some more vintage light line fly rods, but they're rated at 5wt and are probably closer to a true 5wt. They're from Orvis, A&F, and H.L. Leonard.


Top
  
Quote
Post 14 Jul 2021, 07:28 • #10 
Guide
Joined: 10/26/16
Posts: 100
Location: UK
My recollection from spending, as a schoolkid, substantial periods of time in Hardy's Pall Mall shop in the 1970s and early 80s, was that the light JET/Fibalite rods were regarded, even by the staff, as curios, and very few were sold at all, certainly in the UK.

It is worth recalling that it was only in the (IIRC) very late-70s that Scientific Anglers (who made Hardys' lines, as well as their own brand) actually made a true 3-weight line, hence the amusing 3 1/2-weight designation of the lightest JET and Fibalite of the time.

Hardy's main glass trout rod volumes were the 8-9ft rods, predominantly in 6-7 weights. Rods above that range (especially the 10-ft Esks, Invincibles, Drifters etc) were seen as pretty specialised, albeit very important for the brand. Even 5-weights were regarded as oddities.

But the 7ft 4-weight glass rods always languished in the corner of the shop, often not even on the main rack near the glass front: that space was reserved for the franchise rods: 8ft to 9ft trout rods, and 12ft and 14ft double-handed salmon rods.


Last edited by Sash on 14 Jul 2021, 15:37, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
Quote
Post 14 Jul 2021, 10:31 • #11 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
The post WWII recreational boom came on gradually with a corresponding industrial boom. Even baby boomers worked first and played later. As in earlier times, neither the recreational expectations nor the degraded fisheries supported a lot of playtime fishing, The tiny niche Sash describes well was even tinier the farther back you go. The idea of light rods to make small fish feel big was barely born, and mucking around the town ditch was a sport for children, who could stand the smell. Dad was at work. Maybe planning an upcountry trip, or dayhike to a tributary brook, but junior would be using worms, and Dad didn't need a special fly rod to catch a finger sized trout--IF there were any in the brook. There darn well weren't many down in the main stem.

So in the first 25 years of so of the fiberglass era, fisheries habitat and opportunity did not exist like it does today. People who don't remember are lucky. Yes, I had my favorite brooks in the hills, and a great brown trout stream where the best fish lived along a cut bank where discarded washing machines and tires were the boulders. But there were some big trout there, so a 5 weight, considered light at the time, was the smallest you took. I usually used a 7 or 8 weight, the "all arounder," to borrow the Orvis phrase, of the time.

The fisheries that encouraged and rewarded use of sub 4 weight rods weren't there, so the market didn't drive development of them. The 1972 Clean Water Act, along with earlier Dingell Johnson sport fisheries restoration and many state-level initiatives changed all that. Habitat restoration was key. That's when more interest in 4 and sub-4 weight lines/rods developed, but as the fisheries and popularity of this new "light" developed, "long and light" graphite took up development and market interest, so there still weren't a lot of purpose designed 'glass fly rods for these lighter lines.
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=49693&p=213406&hilit=Clean+Water+act+canaries#p213406


Top
  
Quote
Post 14 Jul 2021, 14:13 • #12 
Sport
Joined: 09/06/18
Posts: 61
Location: The Appalachian Mountains of WV/PA
Vince Cummings The Elf 6' 1pc 3wt
Vince Cummings The Brookie 5' 1pc 3wt
Vince Cummings The Ultimate 7' 2pc 4wt


Top
  
Quote
Post 16 Jul 2021, 10:12 • #13 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1784
Location: urban Colorado
ottobahn, that's a remarkable collection of light old glass.. I had no idea there were so many examples.

can confirm Sash's observation - I bought one of those Fibatube 3 1/2wt blanks in the early 80s, and got two for one, because no-one else was buying them. So my fishing buddy got a gift 3 1/2wt.. the rods were fun in our little S. African freestone streams.



We're both still fishing them. I feel it's a 4wt, tried a 3wt line at first and it didn't work the rod for me.
At that time the Orvis Superfine 1wt and 2wt graphite rods had just come out. These were considered a bit laughable by most fisherfolk, rich men's toys..

Another aspect of this is the grade inflation in graphite. Modern graphite is stiffer and faster so you have to go down in nominal weight to get any fun out of trout. I have two modern graphites, a 3wt Cabelas Stowaway and a 4wt Greys Streamlight. Both cast and handle better with heavier lines than their ratings. The Greys is a fine 6wt rod. With a DT4 it's a lot of work to get line out. The Cabelas works well with a 4wt DT Barrios, a 3wt line barely bends the thing. That's why so many modern lines are overweight.. have to be, to make the rods work.


Top
  
Quote
Post 16 Jul 2021, 14:04 • #14 
Guide
Joined: 10/14/19
Posts: 128
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
What a wonderful sickness we suffer from. Just love the rods. Cheers


Top
  
Quote
Post 16 Jul 2021, 19:02 • #15 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1231
Location: Fresno, CA
doug in co wrote:

Another aspect of this is the grade inflation in graphite. Modern graphite is stiffer and faster so you have to go down in nominal weight to get any fun out of trout. I have two modern graphites, a 3wt Cabelas Stowaway and a 4wt Greys Streamlight. Both cast and handle better with heavier lines than their ratings. The Greys is a fine 6wt rod. With a DT4 it's a lot of work to get line out. The Cabelas works well with a 4wt DT Barrios, a 3wt line barely bends the thing. That's why so many modern lines are overweight.. have to be, to make the rods work.



I have experienced this as well, I always wondered why some of the modern graphite rods I've casted always seemed to do better with a line weight one or two weights above the rods stated line wt. Why can't they just label the rods correctly? Some of the 5 wt graphite rods I've casted only seemed to really be able to cast a 5 wt line if I was working with nearly the entire length of the fly line. I'm not the best or strongest caster so it was quite the work out for me. Also non of the fishing I do rarely would I need to cast that far, if ever. I suppose those line ratings are only taking into account having to cast an entire fly line.


Top
  
Quote
Post 21 Jul 2021, 14:32 • #16 
Guide
Joined: 02/18/19
Posts: 157
Location: US-ID
Glass Enthusiast wrote:
Those are some great rods there Ottobahn!

Here are a couple of my favorite vintage lightweights.

Heddon Pal Pro Weight 8381 flyweight #5 7' Though its rated for a 5wt it casts best with a wf4/dt3 Its a really flexy, nimble rod. Probably my Favorite of my metal ferrule fly rods.







My heddon Pal Pro 8381 is a five weight for me, it is the tobacco glass. This could be the rods are different, or, which is totally normal, we have different likes and casting preferences.
This is one of the joys of fiberglass in that you can get a lot of utility from the same rod, and find rods marked one weight that you find fishes better with another weight.

What rod I do own, that is marked for Level Line 5 or a 6wt, but to me can cast a 3,4, 5 line (depending on my mood and what flies I'm fishing) is the St. Croix 7090 XXL 6' 8" rod. At less than 2 ounces, while short, it is not stiff. I was out casting this rod right next to my McFarland 7' 3wt. While the McFarland was the smoother, slower, and deeper flexing rod, the 7090xxl with the same setup was "almost" as enjoyable.


Top
  
Quote
Post 21 Jul 2021, 15:33 • #17 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1231
Location: Fresno, CA
Now I want to find one of the Tobacco 8381's, When I tried mine with a 5wt it just seemed a bit bogged down by it. Could be the fly line I used was a bit heavy for a 5wt.

Do you have a picture of the Tobacco 8381? It sounds like a nice rod.


Top
  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

New Topic Add Reply



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group