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Post 12 Jun 2021, 12:37 • #1 
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I have a 5 wt Winston fly rod from the San Francisco shop that I need to value and potentially sell. It has been in our family for many years and has been gently used. We grew up in Mill Valley California in the 1960's and my dad purchased many brown fiberglass Winston's during that time which are still in our family. I remember walking into the shop and looking at rods with my brothers.

The rod is in excellent condition with no issues. The original case is also included but the sock looks like a replacement. Please see the attached pictures.

I am interested in opinions of the estate and sale value of the rod. These rods seem to be rare and it is a sweet rod that needs a good home




Last edited by DavidN on 12 Jun 2021, 15:56, edited 2 times in total.

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Post 12 Jun 2021, 15:21 • #2 
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Your pictures did not post.

Do you have the model name/number length and line weight of the Winston?


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Post 12 Jun 2021, 15:58 • #3 
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I think I finally got the images to upload. The rod doesn't have any marking for line weight other than the Winston badge. I took the rod to the Fly Shop in Redding and they outfitted it with 5 wt line. It is 7'6" end to end when assembled


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Post 13 Jun 2021, 08:15 • #4 
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Assuming there are no hard-to-spot issues with the rod, my guess would would be around $500 for a private sale through the forum. The replacement bag would be an issue for a collector but not so much for someone who buys it to fish. A dealer might get more but with a fat commission to pay. Ebay is a crapshoot - could go much higher or lower and there would be the 13% commission and fees to consider. This is just my opinion since nobody has weighed in. It could be higher but I doubt it would be lower.


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Post 13 Jun 2021, 15:45 • #5 
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It looks like a stalker from Winston. But all the factory rods I have seen had writing on the blank to identify the rod length.

I know the sold blanks and had rod kits too.
Knowing if it was a factory build versus other blank build will impact the value as well.


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Post 13 Jun 2021, 20:15 • #6 
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spielerman wrote:
It looks like a stalker from Winston.

The Stalker designation often gets attached to any 'short' Winston rod. The OP indicated the rod was purchased in the 60s. The Stalker rods were developed after Tom Morgan purchased Winston in 1973 (viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15321). In addition, the OP indicates the rod is a 7'6" rod for a 5 weight line. The Stalkers were for 2/3/4 weight lines and had cork skeleton reelseats (unless special ordered with an anodized aluminum seat).

Mind you, a 7'6" Winston 5 weight glass rod from the San Francisco shop doesn't exactly suck! That is right in the wheelhouse for classic glass.

spielerman's other comments are right on the money. Factory rods should be marked as to length and line weight. In my opinion the guide wraps are longer than customary also. Many buyers will assume this is a kit rod unless presented with an original invoice or other provenance. That will bring private sale and eBay prices down. The best option may be to sell the rod through a dealer who is well acquainted with Winston glass. They can evaluate the provenance, set an appropriate price, and effectively market the rod to potential buyers.


Tom


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Post 14 Jun 2021, 03:30 • #7 
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I echo others and lean towards this being a custom rod. Thread wrap spirals and thread length as already noted stood out to me as well. Also a rod that old from Winston would have probably affected the varnish and thread color given cork, reel seat and blank condition. I would compare against your family's other Winston rods. It may be a Winston custom rod but rod sock and other flags are curious.

$500 can buy quite a few spectacular rods often offered on this site is my 2 cents and odd change.


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Post 14 Jun 2021, 06:43 • #8 
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It's indeed 'just' a fiberglass rod from before the Stalker. The Stalker series was after Tom Morgan bought the company.

The value is I think about right as mentioned by TipTop. The replacement bag does hurt the 'magic' a bit but as long as the rod is structurally sound and no serious cosmetic damages (for instance a part off the cork grip) it should be a very nice rod to add to anyone who likes old Winston rods.

Here's a picture of my 1975 Winston catalog. No Stalkers are mentioned here.
It's rated as a #6 but as with many vintage glass rods, it casts a line weight lighter very nice.


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Post 14 Jun 2021, 10:40 • #9 
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Thank you all for your thoughts and opinions regarding value and trying to date this rod. As a clarification, I was very young when my dad purchased a number of rods directly from the Winston shop in San Francisco. He purchased a number of lightweight fly rods, a spinning rod, a deep sea rod and a number of 9 wt steelhead/salmon rods. All were purchased as assembled rods with the brown fiberglass bodies from the shop and are still in the family. The rods were purchased in the late 1960's and into the early 1970's. We lived in Mill Valley just north of San Francisco and as I indicated I remember going to the Winston shop as a kid. We moved farther north in 1973 so I know that no other Winston rods were purchased after we moved. My dad got to know one of the main employees in the Winston shop and took him fishing for stiped bass in a small slough that is tributary to Richardson Bay before we moved. My dad still has a streamer that the he was given by the employee. I will have to ask my dad his name.

As I said we have a number of old Winston rods and none of them have markings on the rod to indicate the rod weight. My dad did mark the rod cases to indicate the weight (i.e. 2 1/2 oz.) although this one doesn't have this designation. The only exception is a Winston split bamboo fly rod that is signed as being custom made for my dad by RL Winston. It is the holy grail of the Winston's in our family and I don't think it was ever used. The other Winston rods were gently used for family fishing and all of the rods are in really nice condition, this rod included. I wanted to purchase fly line for this rod and stopped by the Fly Shop in Redding and they recommended the 5 wt line so that is why I have indicated the rod is a 5 wt. An employee at the shop offered to buy the rod

I accidentally broke a tip a few years ago of one of the other 5 wt Winston fly rods and was sick about it. Through this forum I found a gentleman named Randy from Fairfax that had a ton of Fisher blanks that he said he purchased when they went out of business and moved to graphite. He said that Fisher supplied Winston with the brown fiberglass blanks. He literally had a few thousand blanks and I was able to purchase and replace the broken blank of the rod and it matched perfectly. I even found a supply of some of the original thread from the Sunset Line and Twine Company in Petaluma that I was told supplied the wrapping thread to Winston. The repair is very nice and the rod is back in action with no ill effects.

As I said I am interested in finding a home for this rod. Thanks again for the information and your thoughts


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Post 14 Mar 2022, 18:43 • #10 
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You Sir, are a prince. Anyone who would go to those lengths to repair a vintage Winston should be up for sainthood. May the casting gods bless you. Any chance your contact still has the goods to fix another brown vintage glass rod from SF?


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Post 14 Mar 2022, 18:47 • #11 
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I would think that he would have any Fisher blank that you need to repair a brown Winston. His name is Randy and if I recall he was on this forum. Randy at Retroglass. He lives in Fairfax, California. He had thousands of brown Fisher blanks and was easily able to match my rod

David


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Post 14 Mar 2022, 19:21 • #12 
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Joined: 08/11/21
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Location: Tucson, AZ
I sold a 6'6" Winston about 15 years ago...no rod sack or tube..for $225 for a fellow who was divesting his fishing equipment due to ill health, if that is any help.

Sweet rods and highly prized these days.

I cornered Sage rod designer Jerry Siem at a trade show and told him about the Winsotn I came across and he said he designed those rods. For Winston or Fisher, i don't know, but guessing Winston, in the Bay Area, as was Scott I believe.


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Post 15 Mar 2022, 08:12 • #13 
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$500.00 plus.


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Post 15 Mar 2022, 08:26 • #14 
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Winston production of the time was very small, so almost any rod of that era would have a custom appearance. Essentially, that's what they were, on carefully chosen Fisher blanks. About anybody could repair an older Winston IF all its parts were sound, Retroglas would be the go-to if blank sections were needed, although you never know who else might have a scrapped rod or blank that matched reasonably. Value depends on condition and how badly someone wants the rod. Thus the same rod, depending on where and when offered--and how well photographed and described--could actually sell for as little as $100 to more than $500. Two fifty to five hundred as already mentioned is a good ballpark.


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Post 15 Mar 2022, 11:07 • #15 
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Joined: 11/24/21
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That's a heck of a nice rod, regardless of whether it was a custom build or a standard model! You might consider getting an accurate weight on it to compare with some of the known catalog pages, etc. That would just be interesting, and not really matter...what line works best may not always match the catalog or rod markings!

I keep a pretty good eye on all of the various auction sites, and right now Winstons are hot...even relative to the overall high prices we're seeing. I'd bet a paycheck that rod would bring $500+ on eBay easily. The fees are now 12.55% so something in the $400-450 range on a forum would be similar.


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Post 15 Mar 2022, 15:18 • #16 
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It's March. Fly fishing season is just around the corner. The prices for nice gear are probably at the peak for 2022. The supply of vintage glass Winstons is always small. That combines into a seller's market.

Of course, the final eBay price depends on what else is selling and how many buyers want your rod. Good pictures help. Great pictures really help.


Tom


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Post 16 Mar 2022, 16:47 • #17 
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Joined: 02/08/09
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Location: US-VA
You can consign the rod to one of the classic fly tackle dealers... they will establish a price and do the work for you. The fees are inline with that auction site and it's not a hit or miss situation, like many of the other options. If you want some recommendations on classic tackle dealers... send me a PM


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Post 17 Mar 2022, 06:48 • #18 
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Just as an addition to help those trying to decide "is it a Stalker" vs a "Standard Winston Glass offering from either before or during the Stalker run". One way you can tell is whats written on the rod. I have one of each. My "regular" rod is a 7 1/2' 5wt. It says on it clearly "7 1/2' - #5' . That is all thats written on the rod. On the stalker, it has more writing. It says " 7' - #4 " just like the regular, but it also says: 2 1/8oz. 213cm 60g. Under all that, it says "XXXX" which is the serial number of the rod.

I hope this helps those who are wondering between the difference a little bit.


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Post 17 Mar 2022, 11:36 • #19 
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Thanks everyone for providing information and opinions.
David


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Post 03 Nov 2022, 07:44 • #20 
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I know this is quite old but wouldn't this rod be a 5 weight because it appears to have the bakelite reel seat vs the anodized aluminum one shown in the catalog? I think the 1970 Winston catalog showed these and they were offered from 6' to 7 1/2 I believe.


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Post 03 Nov 2022, 08:27 • #21 
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Very small production. Could be a kit rod, but most likely, a shop rod produced on order with the hardware the cusomer specified. Winston, like most small shops, gave options, often listed, but not all illustrated. The customer chose the rod (blank) and then the hardware from a menu of options.


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Post 04 Nov 2022, 09:54 • #22 
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Thank you for this information. I still have the rod and haven't yet found a home for it. I have a few newer rods that I use but find the old glass rods to be my favorites. I don't see many of the old brown Winston glass rods around.


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Post 11 Nov 2022, 11:56 • #23 
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I built quite a few kit rods from blanks in the '70's and also have some factory rods from that time. It seems pretty clear to me that this is a factory-made rod. You didn't get a Winston-labeled tube with a blank, but you could buy a plain tube with plastic cap. Also, you would not get a Winston-labeled
blank either, so that decal is probably the strongest evidence of a factory rod. The black plastic reel seat was standard on factory rods and came with the kit rods too.

The Winstons were not just Fisher-designed blanks selected by Winston. They were blanks rolled by Fisher on Winston-designed mandrels and were exclusive to Winston. The same was true for Ferd Claudio rods - rolled by Fisher on Claudio-designed mandrels. Fisher (Joe Fisher) was not a fly fisherman and needed help in the tapers for fly rods. He also went to the GGACC casting ponds in San Francisco to get help from members like Mel Krieger about rod tapers and actions.


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Post 11 Nov 2022, 13:10 • #24 
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It depends on when the blanks were sourced, especially the SF rods. Tom Morgan has written that he didn't know himself which was which. Of course if you call "designing" giving the manufacture input on the feel or action desired, their customers "designed" the blank and mandrel. If they could spec the actual mandrel and cloth pattern and produce the blanks in a repeatable mode, they would have. Fisher did that. If they had proprietary mandrels, they could have had other makers produce on them. I don't think they did, but I guess somebody might still have them and all the rods made on them. They did specify a different color, but I'm pretty sure that was later--about the time TM ratcheted up and moved to MT. He had great stuff and people to work with, that's for sure.

You would have to have early Fisher blanks to lay against and closely examine any of the others. Some would be the same; some wouldn't. Last time I did that with a Fisher and a Cortland Leon Chandler, they were not quite identical, suggesting some Cortland design, whether by specification or input.

Again, not worth arguing about--and old dispute that never was resolved in its time, let alone now-- especially if customer input--as opposed to exact technical specifications--is called design. But realize, the fact that someone isn't a fly angler doesn't mean he can't manufacture a fly rod, anymore than a guy who couldn 't drive a fast lap around a race track can't design a race car to suit a driver's wants. Fisher consulted good anglers and casters, that's for sure. He served them well and made them feel important. That is what good manufacturers with good customer service do.

Agree that is most likely a shop made rod, as opposed to a kit--but all the more reason if such is being sold to have as much detail as possible along with a seller knowledgeable of the early Winstons.

It would be great to have some the guys like 16PMD who had earliest access to Winston kits start a thread for SF Winston kit builds. I would love to see them, especially with descriptions noting which components were supplied/selected from the kits. By the time Winston was much on the map in the East, so were the Fisher blanks, both 'glass and graphite, so custom builds on those were more common.


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