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Post 23 May 2021, 21:27 • #1 
Sport
Joined: 02/04/14
Posts: 88
Location: US-MA
Hello,

I keep my two favorite vintage rods in my hatchback, where it gets very hot. Is a bad idea for longevity? I enjoy having them ready whenever I want them.


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Post 24 May 2021, 00:28 • #2 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7242
Location: Holly Springs, NC
Rods stored in a car without rod tubes often have short lives...

While auto glass cuts out the worst of the UV light, it does create a poor solar oven. Your rods shouldn't cook any faster than the other plastics in your car. Still, I would throw a covering over the rod tubes to keep them out of direct sunlight.

I don't know of controlled exposure studies on fly rods. Many of us have seen rods damaged from poor storage and age. How long it takes for the damage to show depends on the binding resin (epoxy>>polyester>phenolic).


Tom


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Post 24 May 2021, 07:22 • #3 
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Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 17514
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Parked cars can hit 140 degrees in the summer sun - this happens to be the exact temperature that epoxy resins begin to break down.


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Post 24 May 2021, 07:38 • #4 
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Joined: 04/20/07
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Location: US-ME
An easy way to think of it is that if you wouldn't be comfortable sitting in the parked car for more than a few minutes after the AC and ventilation are turned off, or you wouldn't leave a dog in the car, or a chocolate bar on the dashboard, that's your safety margin for tackle unless it gets some extra protection, full shade, for one. UV damage isn't the worry any more than when using it, but heat is. Shade the car if possible, cover the gear, and put it in the the part of the car likely to stay coolest the longest, usually the floorwell behind a seat or the trunk.


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Post 24 May 2021, 09:27 • #5 
Guide
Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 292
Location: US-MI
UV will yellow the epoxy. It will also darken older varnish that does not have IV inhibitors.
The heat is the real killer.
Like others have said. Keep them on the back seat floor. You could also wrap the tubes in some of that chrome bubble wrap type insulation. It really does help keep thing cool.


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Post 24 May 2021, 12:43 • #6 
Sport
Joined: 02/04/14
Posts: 88
Location: US-MA
I will be taking the rods out this afternoon.


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Post 24 May 2021, 12:51 • #7 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 17514
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
you're probably safe enough before July sun, but good move.


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Post 24 May 2021, 12:55 • #8 
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Just as an additional precaution, the suggestions made pretty much apply to any fly rod of any material, ""modern" or "vintage," and to fly lines as well. For knockabout rods that you do want to keep in your car, that can be ok with the suggestions given, but just have a few--again, vintage or new-- that are modestly priced and easy to replace. Many of them will perform reasonably well, and even if used up after neglect in a hot car, won't owe you anything if you compare the "loss" to the to the amount spent for gasoline, coffee, and other liquids consumed on a few trips. Give up the other liquids for a while and you can think of the rod as "free."


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Post 24 May 2021, 13:15 • #9 
Master Guide
Joined: 06/24/11
Posts: 988
Location: Belgium
Different resins can withstand different temperatures before losing strength. Ball park figures for polyester and epoxy might be 80°C. It can be much higher than that as well. So you need a very hot environment to damage a rod.


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Post 24 May 2021, 13:32 • #10 
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Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 17514
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
I researched the question for a fire investigation that began because of thermally decomposing epoxy coating on flexible copper gas line.

I also routinely final-cure epoxies with temperature. If it's over-tempered you can leave a fingernail impression in the epoxy - after it cools to RT.
I'm sure you're safe enough with a rod locked in your vehicle for a day on the river, but a rod kept handy full-time in your P/U gun rack is a bad idea.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 25 May 2021, 09:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 24 May 2021, 20:15 • #11 
Master Guide
Joined: 01/21/12
Posts: 394
Location: US-NY
When I was 16 I built a 5'6" ultra light spinning rod on a nos Fenwick ferrulite blank. It was an excellent rod. Unfortunately I left the rod in the trunk of my Honda accord throughout the entire summer and it took a set in a couple of months. That dramatically affected how the rod fished and when I tried to fix the set I broke it.

I was mostly drifting live minnows from a boat in a large river for smallmouth bass. The set happened about 1' from the tip and the rod was permanently bent and just didn't feel the same. This was a pretty bad set, the rod looked like a banana.


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Post 24 May 2021, 20:50 • #12 
Sport
Joined: 02/04/14
Posts: 88
Location: US-MA
Well the masterpiece that is the phillipson mf66 is no longer in the car. I will figure out if want to take the ff756 out as well. At work I park inside so it isn’t as bad as at home.


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Post 25 May 2021, 04:41 • #13 
Master Guide
Joined: 06/24/11
Posts: 988
Location: Belgium
There's a point known as the glass transition temperature (Tg) above which the resin starts flowing (with a very high degree of viscosity as if it were very thick molasses). That's when the rod becomes more susceptible to taking a set.


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Post 25 May 2021, 08:27 • #14 
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Joined: 04/20/07
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Location: US-ME
I think there is also a stress relief process with composites, irregular according to the consistency of fiber and resin. Thus, waves or kinks. Most takes place during and soon after manufacture. Some later, impelled by extremes of temperature well short of softening the material. With an hard-to-replace favorite rod, better be safe than sorry than test the temperature limits that might be endured. Also, keep in mind that rapid changes of temperature, as can happen in a car (20 to 30 degrees in an hour, and back down faster when it is driven again and the AC turned up) are no friend to any bonded assembly of parts because they expand and contract at different rates. And just cork itself is not partial to high heat. So there is more potential damage to a fly rod from extreme heat than just kinking up the blank.

Nevertheless, 'glass fly rods are about as indestructible as can be, one reason we like them.

I left a 60 year old Montague holloglass, a sentimental knockabout favorite, in the back of my car all weekend, being too lazy to lug it to the cool basement after loading up the other car for a weekend trip. A foolish risk that did no harm but could have. But it is cool up here, and we have trees for shade like some of the other New England states. I don't know what they do for shade in Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and the like. The anglers' parking must get very crowded under the bushes out there. They can't all fit under the State tree or walk all the way from the other one.


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Post 25 May 2021, 10:28 • #15 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 1986
Location: South of Joplin
I think almost all loose reel seats, loose ferrules and crooked or lost tip tops are from heat exposure, the thin coatings of adhesives are the first to beak down and even when cooled again will be weakened. My experience is that PVC tubes keep rods cooler than metal tubes and that the trunk stays much cooler than the floor well, especially if left in the sun. A blanket over the tubes in the floor well does help though. Think about ice in a small cooler and where it will last longest. I leave the metal tubes at home and the rods in their socks (another layer of insulation) travel in plastic. I park in shade whenever possible, but as the sun moves, so does the shade.


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Post 26 May 2021, 03:13 • #16 
Master Guide
Joined: 06/24/11
Posts: 988
Location: Belgium
It's easy to underestimate how hot a car can get in the sun. Time and time again you hear terrible things about infants or pets left in a car in the sun. Raw carbon fibre parts (black) left in a car, or just in the sun often become too hot to handle. I would say any part of the US except Alaska gets sufficiently strong sun in mid summer to potentially do damage to the contents of a car parked in full sun. I don't even want to think about how hot stuff can get in the southern US.

It's especially important not to leave black rod tubes exposed to strong sunlight as that will turn into a nice little oven.

By the way "post curing" composites will make them stronger so some "slow cooking" can be good for your rod but exceed a certain threshold temperature even if it's just for relatively short time period and damage will be done. So don't think it's OK if it's just for a couple of hours. It's only OK if it never gets too hot.

It has to be said that high quality modern resins tend to have Tgs in the 110° to 130°C range. That's sufficiently high to protect the blank from damage in most environments. However, the glue holding components like reel seats and the cork itself don't like extreme heat.


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Post 26 May 2021, 08:13 • #17 
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Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 17514
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
The guys who came out of the WWII aircraft industry knew everything about heat-and-pressure curing resin composites.
This defines the Eponite process. So I don't think post-curing is a bonus on glass rods -
- the next exposure step is bond-breaking and oxidation. Like all thermo processes, it's very slow at low activation energy, but it adds up.
But I agree with everything else JoJo posted just above.


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Post 26 May 2021, 11:52 • #18 
Sport
Joined: 07/17/05
Posts: 91
Location: Chester County, PA
Adding to the knowledge base on temperature buildup in cars, at DuPont (paint division) we did studies on the effect of paint color. The subject was aircraft paint, since planes don't get much shade. Black of course heated up the most, and we found temperatures up to 180 degrees Fahrenheit. In general, as you would expect, the darker the color, the more the heat rise. However, specific colors had their own impact: reds tended to heat up more, and if you think about the color spectrum, heat waves tend to be in the longer wave lengths from the reds down through infrared. Surprising to some, silver/aluminum (flake) colors, even when pretty light in tone, heated up more than you might suspect. Frying the proverbial egg on the trunk of a car or airplane wing in the sun is entirely possible, given the right colors.

tl
les


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Post 26 May 2021, 12:04 • #19 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 05/09/06
Posts: 2494
Location: US
I would add that using a windshield reflector helps some to keep the temperatures down.

I also have vented window accessories on my doors so I can crack the windows and get a cross breeze. I carry rods frequently and own a lighter color car, have the acrylic vents and use a windshield screen to help prevent damage to my gear.


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Post 28 May 2021, 20:26 • #20 
Guide
Joined: 04/12/18
Posts: 349
Location: Upstate NY - L.George region
I keep two sizes of Eagle Claw Featherlights with cheap lines in the covered cargo area of my Subaru Forester. Perfect rods for this type of duty, I think...


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Post 01 Jun 2021, 11:48 • #21 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1418
Location: urban Colorado
I found out recently, the Tesla cars have a 'dog' mode setting on the AC. So when car is parked, set AC to 'dog', and it will keep the car cool for the pup.
This would work for fishing rods too ;-)
It's an extension of the “Cabin Overheat Protection” mode.
This is the best reason to get a Tesla I've seen yet..


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