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Orvis 8'6" Fullcurve
Post 06 Jan 2021, 18:53 • #1 
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Joined: 10/14/20
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I was hoping to get a bit of information concerning a recent purchase. I have picked up an Orvis 8'6" 2pc fiberglass rod. Looking at your Orvis data base it appears to be a 1966 Fullcurve 1st generation rod 4 3/4oz GAF(9). It is in amazing condition with only a small amount of soiling of the cork grip. It has the super z ferrules and anodized reel seat. I have looked through the forum threads and have found minimal references to this model. My questions are whether this rod is a collectible and also the possible value of it. As far as fishing it I have a mint Pflueger 1498 I may match to it for redfish. Unless you don't think it would hold up. I know less than very little about old fiberglass. Thank you in advance for your expertise.
MAP




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Re: Orvis 8'6" Fullcurve
Post 06 Jan 2021, 21:28 • #2 
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Joined: 06/23/05
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Location: US-MT
Beautiful.
Would absolutely hold up to redfish, glass is tougher than graphite.
Thanks for the great pictures.


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Re: Orvis 8'6" Fullcurve
Post 07 Jan 2021, 19:47 • #3 
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Joined: 08/25/08
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Location: Delton, MI
FullCurve or FullFlex?


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Re: Orvis 8'6" Fullcurve
Post 07 Jan 2021, 20:08 • #4 
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Joined: 11/06/17
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Location: South of Joplin
Crusty, that was my first thought too. Not sure that I've read about "Full Curve" before.
The GAF rating and the 4 3/4oz weight fit the earlier unnamed series with Full Curve action, the named series Fullflex 8'6" was rated GBF and weighed 4 oz with either "Orvis" action or "medium" action per the WIKI. https://wiki.fiberglassflyrodders.com/wiki/Orvis

I'm guessing it is still a Phillipson.


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Re: Orvis 8'6" Fullcurve
Post 07 Jan 2021, 20:34 • #5 
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Joined: 01/10/06
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Location: Holly Springs, NC
I don't think the OPs rod was built on a Phillipson blank. The color is off. In addition, the hardware does not appear to be Phillipson. Bill Phillipson typically built complete rods for his customers. The Powerflex rods are a good example of Phillipson rods made with customer specified paint and thread. The Powerflex rods have Phillipson ferrules and reelseats. Even the Orvis Fullflex rods have Phillipson ferrules - although the rest of the build was done by the Orvis shop.

If anything, the OP's rod looks like a Wright & McGill ferrule to me. The welt on the female ferrule is more triangular than round, which is a W&M hallmark. I'm changing my mind on this. The OP's rod appears to have a Phillipson ferrule. The rods in the photo below are, 1) an Orvis Fullflex with a Phillipson ferrule, 2) a custom rod built on a Silaflex blank with Super Z ferrule, 3) an Eagle Claw rod, 4) a Wright & McGill rod. The W&M ferrule welt is very triangular - more so than the OP's rod. Also the two embossed rings on the OP's ferrule are spaced much more like the Phillipson.

The second photo shows a Phillipson reelseat on an Orvis Powerflex rod. The OPs rod may have an Orvis reelseat, but usually those also have a walnut reelseat spacer.


Tom



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Re: Orvis 8'6" Fullcurve
Post 08 Jan 2021, 00:05 • #6 
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Joined: 11/06/17
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Location: South of Joplin
Just guessing by what the WIKI says, I don't know much about the Orvis and had thought the color likely painted on, but on my machine it comes close to matching three or four of the P's at the page top.
My W&M and the ones I've seen were much darker brown than the OP's, but mine is a latter make with the mini ferrules.


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Re: Orvis 8'6" Fullcurve
Post 08 Jan 2021, 02:12 • #7 
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Joined: 01/10/06
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Location: Holly Springs, NC
Trev,

To me the OP's rod blank looks like a semi-sanded, unpainted, brown-ish, translucent blank. There is a definite spiral pattern. The translucent part may just be my imagination. Post 1962 Phillipson rods are almost always sanded, painted blanks. The unpainted Phillipson rod blanks are mostly Eponite brown glass (2nd blank from the top in the forum header photo) or, very rarely, milky/clear glass. The Fullflex and Powerflex rod blanks were both built on smooth sanded, painted blanks.

You are right, the W&M rod blanks are darker brown.

Perhaps Orvis was able to get special blanks from Phillipson. The ferrule definitely looks the part. Near as I can recall, this may be the first Orvis rod from this time period that I've seen.

The two embossed bands on the tip top are interesting. I haven't noticed them on other rods. None of the rods I pulled out for these photos had any additional detailing on the tip tops.


Tom


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Re: Orvis 8'6" Fullcurve
Post 08 Jan 2021, 08:49 • #8 
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Joined: 04/20/07
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I would judge that rod based on how it feels in hand, and value it as a fishing rod. Details may be of interest but won't substantially change its value unless very exactly nailed down, and even then, not much because it's not in an especially popular configuration. All the more reason it might make a very nice heavy line weight 'glass rod to fish. For history/provenance, learn all you can from the seller and go from there.

My observations--which still could lead to completely wrong conclusions--suggest a recently refinished rod, blank and wraps coated with a two-part rod coating. The rod itself may be a kit rod or a blank of some other origin with components sourced from Orvis, but the components aren't unique to Orvis anyhow. Can't be sure about the blank except it's not typical Orvis.

Now the labeling. You can search a lot of Fullflex pics to find a few scripted blanks. Compare the script, its position, and its direction relative to grip. I can't tell for sure in the pics, but it looks like that one is scripted/read with the grip to the right ("down" the rod). Orvis, like the Phillipsons shown at the top of this forum, were typically scripted/print-labled read grip to the left (or "up" the rod).

It would be great if an early Orvis 'glass collector can resolve some of these details and the questions they raise, but I don't think the rod will prove valuable. "Priced as a shooter" is the expression in the firearms trade, and you can get some darn good rods in that range because you aren't paying for cachet, romanticized memory, glorified days of yore, and so on. At the very least, I think that rod will turn out that way.


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Re: Orvis 8'6" Fullcurve
Post 08 Jan 2021, 09:52 • #9 
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Joined: 03/16/08
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just because someone inked this rod "Orvis" doesn't necessarily mean it was actually made by Orvis...
that possibility needs to be evaluated. Where does the model name "Full Curve" appear?
Would be interesting to compare the script to known Orvis rods...
Could be an un-catalogued prototype, perhaps, as well.

I see this a lot on the secondary market for vintage bamboo rods that read "Heddon", but clearly were not penned by the ladies that adorned the true Heddon bamboo rods.

Whenever someone presents a "mystery" vintage rod, especially with metal ferrules, I always guess "St. Croix."


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Re: Orvis 8'6" Fullcurve
Post 08 Jan 2021, 10:12 • #10 
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Joined: 05/09/06
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.

I would agree with Tom that this is probably not a Phillipson pedigree rod.

But it is interesting as to me the script does match an earlier full flex 8ft 6in rod I owned. That rod the writing didn't match my others.

Image


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Re: Orvis 8'6" Fullcurve
Post 08 Jan 2021, 12:19 • #11 
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Joined: 01/26/07
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Location: Ada, Oklahoma
I had a Phillipson Aristo in 8' 6" 9 weight. The blank was a sort of butterscotch color, similar to the above posted rod. It also had a semisanded finish. It was built on an Eponite blank. I posted some pictures here of my Aristo last year. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=67947&hilit=Aristo#p364457

Larry


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Re: Orvis 8'6" Fullcurve
Post 08 Jan 2021, 12:43 • #12 
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Joined: 10/14/20
Posts: 2
Thank you for all the comments concerning this rod. My apologies for the "Fullcurve" model reference. That was obviously incorrect and caused some confusion. Just to mention, I thought it was odd that the script on the butt did seem to be backwards. When looking at it I continually had to turn it around. Though looking at the Orvis rods aligned together in the previous post it seems to be positioned the same way. The script itself seems to be written in the same hand to the sample provided above but I have been wrong a time or two in my lifetime. Love a good mystery and am enjoying the conversation. Very curious about the outcome.

MAP


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