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Re: Harnell 604
Post 18 Jul 2020, 11:19 • #26 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19106
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Glorious morning, cooler and drier outside than in - a rare treat for s. Texas mid-July, but didn't last long.
Got out to Cibolo at 7:30 and home at 10a. When I hiked the ridge back to my truck it was already in the 90s - but dry.
The dinosaur tracks at the trailhead

I went the wrong way, heading first up the creek to fish back down.
The creek is way down, only a few cfs, and Herff Springs was dry.
The wide, deep log jams were tepid and horrible with hair algae.
That pinned my up-creek trek, and I stepped in to fish a few slow bowls.

Here was a spot where the rod shined, Long casts into tight overhang.

Chris, if fishing close is your goat, look for that Airflo in 6-wt - it's still a little fast with the 5 until you get some line out, and close roll-casting was not good, though it picked right up with 10' of line out.
Didn't even try the BPS 10-m DT5 - already knew it wasn't going to work.
Caught a few green sunfish, and not sure why my camera decided on a long exposure here - it was flashing everywhere else - oops

So I busted out and hiked way down past dry Herff Springs, to get to the flagstone runs at the bottom.
Here was where the rod was a joy - 40' roll casts, continuously into the structure on either bank - a little A-strain endemic bass followed it in once.
The flagstone was loaded with schools of fingerling endemic bass - it's just their parents weren't here.
This water fishes great at 15 cfs or more.

I should have begun here, because by the time I got here, the park was crowded.


At the very bottom, where a mesh fence blocks even casting, finally saw my quarry - 3 really nice endemic bass ran from the last flagstone shelf into the cover of No Trespassing.
It's OK, the guy who lives there donated a half-mile of creek, all the Boerne City Parks, and a 1500-acre wildlife preserve.
Here's what I was hoping to catch, A-strain endemic bass.
But it was a good outing with the rod, and that finishing stroll down the flagstone with long roll casts made my day, anyway.


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Re: Harnell 604
Post 18 Jul 2020, 11:28 • #27 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/20/17
Posts: 387
Location: Portland, OR
Glad you made it out...sounds like a nice morning...you don't see dinosaur tracks everyday...that's a pretty creek...I can see how it would fish a bit better with more water...

Sounds like the rod likes a 6wt for roll casting, including close in...I will likely need longer casts when roll casting and full back casting, sounds like the Airflo 6 will do both of those well...I will get it out on Rainbow Trout streams this fall where in some areas I can wade out a ways and in some areas I can't...should be perfect for that...

Thanks for the report and glad you had some fun playing with this unusual and unique rod. It's amazing you can get 80' casts of a five footer.

Sandman


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Re: Harnell 604
Post 19 Jul 2020, 17:00 • #28 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19106
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
It's only 22 mi from my drive to Cibolo, and is the best fit nearby for this rod.
Other places where the little rod would shine are the Sabinal/Frio confluence, and the Guadalupe forks in Hunt, but either of those are a 100-mi drive and most fun when you can make an outing with a few friends, eat lunch at Hermann Son's Steakhouse in Hondo, or Mamacita's in Kerrville.
Normally, I would pick the water for the flow and weather, and the rod for the water - this was a case of picking the water for the rod.

I'll also add here that haul was very important on this rod - it was the only way to feel the rod load.
And the coast air came back in this morning, but it was still nice getting out on the bike at 73 degrees.


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Re: Harnell 604
Post 04 Feb 2024, 11:04 • #29 
Guide
Joined: 12/07/17
Posts: 128
Location: Long Island, NY
Sandman wrote:
This is a Harnell 604, Pee Wee Fly, 5', one piece, 1 1/2 oz blank. Circa 1960. My scale shows 2.4 oz total. It's well appointed with Harnell classic gold Mylar over red wraps with yellow accents and the venerable one piece high density cork grip. Does not have the Harnells patented (angle cut bands) reel seat. Beautiful condition including original tapered sock and tube, which is in remarkable condition for a fibreboard tube (missing cap). Note the sock is labeled 601. The 601 was the same blank but with spinning hardware, so the sock may of been the same too.The rod shows no signs of use. All the guides still show original varnish drips. A scarce rod (I've never seen one before), particularly in this condition. I don't imagine millions were sold.

Some may consider this a novelty rod, or maybe a children's learning rod. I don't know what Harnell's target audience was for this rod. One could also think a small, heavily brushed creek needing a good short roll caster. While I've only lawn cast with a WF4, DT5 and WF6, it's a para taper that may be a good roll caster (and it's very parabolic, about as opposite of full, evenly flexing as you can get). Surprisingly powerful for 5' of glass. Comparing it to the Fenwick FF535, it's much more powerful and more parabolic. It liked the DT5 best with consistent overhead casts of 30'-40'. No more than that. Though, I've not tried a DT6 (HDH) yet as Harnell suggests. Ron wrote in a prior topic, "Harnell, especially in shorter rods is the most para I've found in vintage glass."

I'll try this rod on the water, but I didn't buy it necessarily to use, more for nostalgia, posterity and scarcity. I've been looking for the Harnell 605. The search continues. Credit Ron for catalog photo.

Interested in any conditions where this rod would be useful or if anyone has one of these to share thoughts, otherwise at least this site now has some info on this model.

Sandman






What does the R mean after the model number from the catalog page? I have a 650 with no “R” after it just below the Harnell fish logo as shown above for the 604 in the second photo. It is 9 ft and weights about the same as the 950 R on the catalog page. The second photo above shows no R after the 604 but it could be hidden in the view.


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Re: Harnell 604
Post 05 Feb 2024, 13:45 • #30 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/20/17
Posts: 387
Location: Portland, OR
Radding, good question. IDK. Maybe someone here does. Here is what I've noticed. All of the factory built/wrapped rods end with an "R", at least up to the 1956 catalog and likely longer. All of the Blank rods end with a "B" and all of the Kit rods end with a "K". Various accessories model numbers end with their initials; Ferules "F", Grip Accessories "GA", Reel Seats "RS", etc. Why did they not print the "R" on factory built rods at some point, even when the catalog listed an "R" after the model number. My best guess is, at some point, they just stopped printing the "R" on the rod because it was not needed, but it is the same rod listed with an "R" after the SN. Again, just my guess. And, I'm not sure what the "R" stands for.

Sandman


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Re: Harnell 604
Post 05 Feb 2024, 13:55 • #31 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19106
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
I have '59 Harnell catalog - every finished rod ends in R, it must mean rod.

Sandman, scan the '56 page for 645R for me...


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Re: Harnell 604
Post 07 Feb 2024, 11:43 • #32 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/20/17
Posts: 387
Location: Portland, OR
Ron, below are the fly rod pages from the 1955 catalog. The 645 was the shortest fly taper they offered. Relative to Radding's question, note the R, B and K suffixes.

Sandman









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Re: Harnell 604
Post 07 Feb 2024, 13:23 • #33 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19106
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
perfect - thanks!!


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Re: Harnell 604
Post 07 Feb 2024, 20:00 • #34 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2511
Location: South of Joplin
Thanks Sandman. Now I know that he considered my rod as "dry fly".


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Re: Harnell 604
Post 08 Feb 2024, 13:19 • #35 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19106
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Hi Trev, that would be true of any fast rod up to 7-wt.
Swoopy tapers with a lot of mid- and butt-flex were considered wet-fly rods.
Harnell rods aren't quite progressive, everyone considers them more-para tapers.
But any rod needs a progressive tip to get line started, and longer rods tend to have longer progressive tips.
The 604 that's the subject of Chris' OP is bound to be the most-para, least-progressive of all Harnell fly rods.
It's nothing like forgiving, tough to get the cast started, and then it punches out distance.

If you think about Cummings Water Witch, it's a wet-fly rod with rated 6/7-wt, and becomes a dry-fly rod with 3/4-wt.

The 645 that I asked for the catalog page is a true pocket rocket.
It feels like way too much rod to take out daily.
My nite-lite dock-fishing niche, one back-cast for line speed aimed between palm leaves then shoot, I can't think of a better rod.

Image
Image

Since it hasn't been covered on this thread, from his radar-dome days at Convair, John Harrington added carbon black to his resin formulation.
This added a stiffness contribution in the resin itself, making these rods faster than other glass rods of the 50s.
These rods are not painted black, but the resin is black through the thickness.
After sale of Harnell to H-I and then Gladding, Harrington continued making his rods exactly this way into the 1990s.

I'll also add I much prefer my 8' Harnell 1652 BronzGlas (H-I-era painted gold) for indicator nymphing.

Image


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Re: Harnell 604
Post 08 Feb 2024, 13:32 • #36 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2511
Location: South of Joplin
Did Gladding use Harrington mandrels, or resin recipes, Harrington made machines, or did they just use the name? To me the Gladding rods don't show any "Harnell" at all. But then I've only seen pictures of them.


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Re: Harnell 604
Post 09 Feb 2024, 12:54 • #37 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19106
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
H-I bought the mandrels and process along with the TM in 1962. Gladding bought them within a year.
The sale was a business fall-out with partner Runnells, who was marketing and distribution - all Harrington cared about was building rods.

Chris has shared some very good examples of very late Harnell TM production by Gladding (spinning and casting), and Gaddis shared fly rods -
- they're finished just like the c. 1960 rods that Harrington made - and of course, built on the original Harnell mandrels.
Not all the photos are here, but this is a 1966 Harnell (Gladding)

My BronzGlas looks like Harnell where the H-I paint is scratched. Great rod, and heck of a great reel seat that accepts 2-5/8" foot on prewar Young reels.
Even the wraps are classic Harnell in reverse.
Image

my 652 is happy with a 7-wt slime line
Image

In 1965, John Harrington set up shop again with new mandrels (more likely original mandrels he left with).
TX Mecca Roy's Bait & Tackle (Corpus) sold Harrington surf rod blanks as long as they were available.


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