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Post 16 Aug 2020, 13:09 • #26 
Guide
Joined: 06/19/14
Posts: 100
Location: Columbia, MO
Thanks, bulldog.

steve


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Post 16 Aug 2020, 13:39 • #27 
Guide
Joined: 06/08/16
Posts: 318
Location: US-MI
Fiberglass was too fragile for something as important as communications on the battlefield.
Speaking of fragile, I’m sorry if anyone’s nose got out of joint over my resurrection of a 12 year old post. I was just trying to add new information that I found on the topic. I won’t ever do it again. Never.


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Post 16 Aug 2020, 17:02 • #28 
Sport
Joined: 12/04/11
Posts: 58
Location: US-MI
I wish Warren Platt was in this group. He has collected and researched Fairfax rods of Kansas City more than anyone know and is convinced that they produced the first commercial fiberglass rods beginning in 1945. Fairfax eventually was bought out and the name was changed to Phantom. Fairfax did not make flyrods but rather glass baitcasting rods many of which had unique looking fiberglass handles. Warren tells me they would take each new experimental rod out to the Kansas City casting ponds and ask the tournament casters for reviews as well as advice on needed improvments. He has a nice representative collection of these very unique rods.


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Post 16 Aug 2020, 17:06 • #29 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 17310
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Probably also making parts for Boeing Aircraft in Witchita?
Bill, borrow some of his photos and post them on Another Spin page for us.


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Post 16 Aug 2020, 20:53 • #30 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7134
Location: Holly Springs, NC
The Purist wrote:
Speaking of fragile, I’m sorry if anyone’s nose got out of joint over my resurrection of a 12 year old post. I was just trying to add new information that I found on the topic. I won’t ever do it again. Never.

I'm really not sure what you expected. These sorts of unsupported speculations aren't your usual practice. You emphatically stated that Vic Johnson & Vic Johnson misquoted the Phantom 1955 catalog in their book Fiberglass Fly Rods. A couple of posts later you note you were looking at a 1954 catalog on eBay (image below). This meant the book was all wrong with the claim Phantom made the first solid glass fishing rods. Thus, Dr. Howald must have been the inventor of all fiberglass rods because the Howald family still had his lab notes*. And Havens was a tennis player so he couldn't have been involved with fishing rod invention.

None of this was backed up with documents, images, or references.

I assume Johnson & Johnson correctly assessed that Phantom was the first with solid glass fishing rods and that Havens and Howald have equal claim to being first with hollow glass fishing rods. Obviously, Libbey Owens Ford received the patent (thank you Motosacto for finding that US patent for me) and Howald and Meyer were assigned as inventors. Johnson & Johnson also note that John Harrington made a glass fishing rod for his own use in 1943. Two things are important for establishing patent rights, the idea and putting that idea into practice. Harrington's 1943 rod and Hewitt's earlier nylon experiments could be considered prior art in a patent dispute.

Johnson & Johnson make a very interesting statement about the Libbey Owens Ford patent on page 148 of their book in the chapter about Shakespeare.
    "Numerous other manufacturers had entered into fiberglass rod production between 1945 and 1952. When the patent was issued, there was some confusion over who had the right to make fiberglass rods and whether these other firm's processes were patent infringements. In June 1952, Shakespeare and Libby-Owens offered rights under the patent to Horrocks-Ibbotson and 34 other manufacturers for $1 per year. This apparently allowed Libby-Owens to maintain their other purchasers of fiberglass products. It also maintained Shakespeare's ability to continue to be the only firm in the U.S. building rods under the unique Howald process."


Tom

* Are Howald's notes published or available for public viewing? I would think those notes should have gone to his employer.



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Post 16 Aug 2020, 22:51 • #31 
Guide
Joined: 10/30/18
Posts: 189
Location: SF Bay Area
That so many people/companies could be considered “the first” makes me believe the idea of fiberglass in fishing rods had to be knocking around that industry throughout the war. Fascinating history of US war production/technology and it’s switch to peacetime use. Libby Owens exhibits the best US business pivot granting use rights under their patent to create demand for their product. Often wondered why some companies labeled their fly rods as “Fiberglas”. Easy to imagine their “continental spelling” was getting them around patents.


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Post 17 Aug 2020, 09:09 • #32 
Global Moderator
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8171
Location: US-ME
They didn't agree at the time and some agreements are a matter of financial practicality or who gets tired of the dispute first. Quite likely there are some who could make a claim but didn't or were discouraged from doing so, and in a very nice way, thank you--or in a more controlling way such as reassignment to a different job. Yes, this is speculation in any one moment or situation, but no more so than looking at a busy intersection and KNOWING that there has been or will be an auto accident there. Several.

Normal with new technology. I think we have a remarkably good record, but that doesn't rule out a new/old "claim," since history is written by those who took charge. That doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be rewritten, either; it just adds to the vitality of the time period and is, at the very least, accurate in that regard.


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Post 18 Aug 2020, 17:06 • #33 
Guide
Joined: 04/17/12
Posts: 135
Location: Blacksburg, VA
CroixBoy wrote:
Often wondered why some companies labeled their fly rods as “Fiberglas”.

Since the spelling "Fiberglas" is/was a trademark for Owens-Corning weave material I'd speculate that the reason so many manufacturers used that spelling was because they were using the trademarked material to roll their rods.


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Post 18 Aug 2020, 20:31 • #34 
Guide
Joined: 10/30/18
Posts: 189
Location: SF Bay Area
Ah!! That explains that spelling. Thanks for the clarification!


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Post 27 Mar 2021, 18:08 • #35 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/19/08
Posts: 981
Location: Branson, Missouri


Here is an interesting example : Owens Corning Fiberglas - the sock also has Gliebe on it







Its a 8ft fly rod for certain - perhaps a little heavy in the hand.. has butt strength and a decent softer tip.
Interesting too - the blank is dense, also it is sorta cold to the touch.. like porcelain.


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