It is currently 08 Dec 2022, 14:29


1, 2  Next New Topic Add Reply
Author Message
Post 05 Nov 2019, 12:18 • #1 
Sport
Joined: 02/19/08
Posts: 73
Location: US-CT
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

I just acquired this rod from the original owner who purchased it at from Jim Deren himself, at the original Angler's Roost in NYC. Jim passed in '83.

Can anyone ID the glass or maybe a maker? Its quite possible that it was built and wrapped in-house by someone on Jim's staff, but I think more likely the work would have been contracted out as he sold a lot of rods.

I haven't tried it with a spin reel yet, but it casts a WF-5 really well. The length is 7'. Any guess as to what the "8254" stands for?

Thanks in advance for any information you can lend.

Dean.


Last edited by reelsmith on 15 Nov 2019, 14:05, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
Quote
Post 05 Nov 2019, 13:16 • #2 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/01/12
Posts: 850
Location: Upstate NY
Blank looks like a Fisher, which would make sense for the time period. The 82 part of that number is kinda puzzling, if rod is 7ft actually, I would think it should be 84, then the 5 stands for 5wt, 4 for 4pc. Fisher did label their blanks in that manner.

Maybe Andy Manchester will see this, if anyone might know, he should.


Top
  
Quote
Post 05 Nov 2019, 13:31 • #3 
Sport
Joined: 02/19/08
Posts: 73
Location: US-CT
Thank you for the help with an ID on the blank. Fisher was my guess too ans was curious to see if there would be agreement.

It looks pretty much identical to a Fisher blank I built out at around the same time ...and still fish !

The rod is 7' when assembled, is marked 7' and fits into the original 4-section bag perfectly. So I'm assuming, all correct and original.

The 8254 could be a date ? 1982, May, 5 ???

Thanks again.

Dean.


Top
  
Quote
Post 05 Nov 2019, 13:55 • #4 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/01/12
Posts: 850
Location: Upstate NY
I'm pretty sure it is a Fisher Blank, I have a couple of blanks in my stock that are that same color, with the same color spigots. It is also the same color as two Scientific Angler System 4 and 6 rods that I own, those were done on Fisher Blanks also. I have seen and owned Fishers that were a lighter brown, a "brick red" color and some that were unsanded. White spigots were also used.

As far as that number being a date, possible. Someone with more knowledge is bound to chime in.


Top
  
Quote
Post 05 Nov 2019, 18:49 • #5 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 1859
Location: US-PA
I can't offer any insight but that rod brings a smile to my face!!

I spent many Saturday afternoons and few weekdays evening at Jim's shop (post Chrysler Building) when I lived a few blocks away back in the early 80's. In those days, Jim was it as far as employees went and his demeanor was legendary. Somehow he tolerated me. :)

The place was tiny and crammed with a ton of stuff but I can't say I remember anything specific except the "Angler's Roost" vise that was reinvented as the Xuron vise. If you mentioned the Xuron, you got a lecture from Jim on how he invented it and Xuron stole his idea.

While I believe the Angler's Roost predates him, you may want to reach out to Joe Fox at Dette Flies and see if he knows or knows any old timers who may have some insight on whose creation it was.

Cool rod, thanks for the memories!!


Top
  
Quote
Post 05 Nov 2019, 19:05 • #6 
Sport
Joined: 02/19/08
Posts: 73
Location: US-CT
My pleasure ! Glad it brought back fond memories.

I had been to the shop a few times ...let's just say Jim was quite the character. And yes, his demeanor was legendary.

I attended the sale of his shop's contents that was held in Bedford, NY, in '85. Picked up a lot of wonderful goodies that day !

Thanks for your post. It brought a smile to my face.

Dean.


Top
  
Quote
Post 05 Nov 2019, 23:17 • #7 
Inactive
Joined: 11/21/18
Posts: 151
Location: Marana , Az
I'm confused , I thought ARE was Johnny Kuhen ? spl?


Top
  
Quote
Post 06 Nov 2019, 06:05 • #8 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/29/09
Posts: 865
Location: US-MI
Fisher it appears. Do the spigot ferrels have a hole in the end or are they solid?


Top
  
Quote
Post 06 Nov 2019, 06:10 • #9 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 1859
Location: US-PA
reelsmith wrote:
My pleasure ! Glad it brought back fond memories.

I had been to the shop a few times ...let's just say Jim was quite the character. And yes, his demeanor was legendary.

I attended the sale of his shop's contents that was held in Bedford, NY, in '85. Picked up a lot of wonderful goodies that day !

Thanks for your post. It brought a smile to my face.

Dean.

You'll enjoy this.

BTW - If you can get in touch with Hoagy, he would probably know.

jangles wrote:
I'm confused , I thought ARE was Johnny Kuhen ? spl?

Johnny Kuehn is the proprietor of the "new" Angler's Roost, not the original which was owned & run by Jim Deren in NYC. You will also appreciate reading this article.


Top
  
Quote
Post 06 Nov 2019, 06:24 • #10 
Global Moderator
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8598
Location: US-ME
If that's not a Fisher, it's the best Fisher lookalike ever produced. Just a guess, but a NYC "staff," if there was one, likely couldn't assemble rods like that nearly as inexpensively, even if piecework paid, as an aftermarket shop or Fisher itself using the same resources they did to produce a custom labeled model for other retailers. Cosmetically, it looks similar, if not identical, to rods marked for other outfits, such as Eddie Bauer. So I would guess it was a "custom" batch order of a standard model, the decal or lettering being specified by his shop, possibly the spin-fly grip.

Could be completely wrong. It's worth it just for the memories. I don't even remember going in there, and I know I did because my brother, who lived in NYC late 70s has tackle "we" picked out there before going to the Battenkill. He just moved and uncovered 70s angling artifacts. Thanks for showing.


Top
  
Quote
Post 06 Nov 2019, 12:03 • #11 
Inactive
Joined: 11/21/18
Posts: 151
Location: Marana , Az
Very interesting , thanks for tuning me in . JK is also gone and it looks as though ARE is gone too .


Top
  
Quote
Post 06 Nov 2019, 13:44 • #12 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 1859
Location: US-PA
jangles wrote:
Very interesting , thanks for tuning me in . JK is also gone and it looks as though ARE is gone too .

It's funny how the names of some famous NY fly shops continued, usually in different locations and minus the characters that ran them.

The Angler's Roost in NYC, owned & operated by Jim Deren, Dette Flies, started by Walt & Winnie Dette in Rosco, NY and the Bedford Sportsman run by Peter Phelps in Bedford Hills, NY were all haunts of mine and come immediately to mind...

...and Abercrombie & Fitch if you want to stretch things a bit.


Top
  
Quote
Post 06 Nov 2019, 15:37 • #13 
Inactive
Joined: 11/21/18
Posts: 151
Location: Marana , Az
Had a place like that in Central Illinois where I grew up . A one stop shop , it was great but it too is gone . It seems like all the things that were good back in the day were just left to die out and bigger non caring entities are taking over . I guess in a way the online thing has taken it's toll .


Top
  
Quote
Post 06 Nov 2019, 15:50 • #14 
Sport
Joined: 02/19/08
Posts: 73
Location: US-CT
Grouse - No holes in the ferrules.

Bamboozle - Thanks for the link ! I might see Hoagy at the Catskill Museum of Fly Fishing show this weekend. By the way ...I still stop by and see Charlie and Todd at The Bedford Sportsman. The new shop is about 20 minutes from my house. There is no resemblance to the Peter Phelps days. What a great shop that was ! I miss my pal Harry Whitman.

Whrlpool - Thanks for the information. I think the premise of a custom batch by an aftermarket shop makes sense.

Thank you all for your help. Glad I brought back some fond memories.

Dean.


Top
  
Quote
Post 06 Nov 2019, 16:49 • #15 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 1859
Location: US-PA
reelsmith wrote:
Bamboozle - Thanks for the link ! I might see Hoagy at the Catskill Museum of Fly Fishing show this weekend. By the way ...I still stop by and see Charlie and Todd at The Bedford Sportsman. The new shop is about 20 minutes from my house. There is no resemblance to the Peter Phelps days. What a great shop that was ! I miss my pal Harry Whitman.

Thank you all for your help. Glad I brought back some fond memories.

Dean.

I still remember the TU banquet Peter invited me to back in the early 80's. I took the train up from the city and he met me at the station. What I remember more is missed out on winning one of his rods in the raffle along with the accompanying full size watercolor of the rod.

However, I still own two Leonard rods I bought from him at that shop.


Top
  
Quote
Post 06 Nov 2019, 20:42 • #16 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/29/09
Posts: 865
Location: US-MI
Image

Image

Factory Fisher shown above. Looks like your rod as posted.


Top
  
Quote
Post 07 Nov 2019, 08:46 • #17 
Guide
Joined: 06/08/16
Posts: 322
Location: US-MI
There is a A&F graphite on the auction site now that has the same color wraps, winding check, and electro-pencil engraving. It is not spigot ferruled though.
Hoagy is a great guy and brilliant author. But I don’t think I would be a bidder on a Theodore Gordon union suit!


Top
  
Quote
Post 07 Nov 2019, 11:39 • #18 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 18234
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
definitely a Fisher blank, and a configuration to spark jealousy


Top
  
Quote
Post 07 Nov 2019, 12:55 • #19 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4777
Location: US-MT
I find that lighter colored spigot interesting. I have had several Fishers with the darker spigots, and a couple (Hardy? Sceptre) with the white spigot.


Top
  
Quote
Post 23 Nov 2021, 23:03 • #20 
New Member
Joined: 11/22/21
Posts: 4
Location: WA (the state)
Realizing of course that this is a 2 year old thread, I found it very intriguing in my quest for an old Eddie Bauer branded rod—my first fly rod in about 1975. It’s long since been lost and I am trying to find a replacement. Aside from the branding on the blank, it was a dead ringer for the rod posted above by @reelsmith. If interested, I started a new thread describing my quest:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=73179#p403533

Shout if anyone is a line on one of these Eddie Bauer unicorns!


Top
  
Quote
Post 26 Nov 2021, 21:14 • #21 
Master Guide
Joined: 03/20/07
Posts: 834
Location: US-TX
Fisher’s blank #s don’t always make sense to me. I would presume that may be the case with yours as well.
For example I built up two blanks I purchased from the owner of the remaining NOS blanks.
One is a 7ft 2pc 4/5wt, labeled “2457” (brownish male ferrule).
Another is an 8ft 2pc 5wt, labeled “2056” (white male ferrule).

A similar blank I came across (8ft 2pc 5wt) but with a brownish male ferrule is a “2058” blank.

Someone with more Fisher-specific knowledge may be able to shed more light on it. That’s all I can contribute.


Top
  
Quote
Post 27 Nov 2021, 09:15 • #22 
Global Moderator
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8598
Location: US-ME
The spigot stock varied over the years. The owner/seller of those blanks will have about as exact a history as you can get and is familiar with the standard mandrels used to produce various models. Not a point worth debating, but I think Fisher was about as consistent as it gets over their main years of 'glass production as far as the model range and specifications go, as opposed to a new taper and configuration every model year. Fisher's blanks could be used in "custom" rods varied by hardware, fittings, and label. Batches of the same blank could be provided in different custom form, or to assemblers who used that same blank to make "different" custom rods. I think they did less of small-batch custom manufactured blanks on a proprietary mandrel and taper. They did do larger production proprietary work, as in the case of the SA System series rods. The best resource we have here to i.d. most Fisher products, even when branded by someone else, is here:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1043&start=25#p130436

If you observe the blank diameter dimensions, you can see that blanks may be the same length, but designed for different line weights.


Top
  
Quote
Post 27 Nov 2021, 09:20 • #23 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 18234
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Guadalupe Bass, both blanks are listed in the '84 Fisher catalog viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1043&start=25#p130436
Image


Top
  
Quote
Post 27 Nov 2021, 09:27 • #24 
Global Moderator
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8598
Location: US-ME
Bingo on the simultaneous posts with Bulldog. Another more speculative point. These Catskill guys were shrewd competitors. If one were using St. Croix blanks (Vince Cummings), another was going to go with something different/new. The St. Croix name was far better known in the East at this time. What might be seen as an advantage to one, might motivate a plan B by another, using the obscurity of the Fisher name to present as an entirely custom made rod. This is from the marketing standpoint (that's just a specially wrapped St. Croix, vs. that's a custom rod). Fisher, at least in the 'glass era, had a tiny retail presence for its own finished rods and was almost strictly an OEM. St. Croix did have a retail presence of its own finished rods.


Top
  
Quote
Post 27 Nov 2021, 09:42 • #25 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 18234
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Seems we're changing the topic, but both Russ Peak and Vince Cummings would take the same St. Croix blank, sand, shape, and polish the blanks to their own tapers.
E.g., Water Witch

Image

Image


Top
  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

1, 2  Next New Topic Add Reply



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: newmin and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group