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Post 02 Jan 2019, 21:22 • #51 
Master Guide
Joined: 01/25/18
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Location: Brazoria County, TX
Someone, Ron, anyone, might talk or do a thread about the different rod tapers and the typical casting characteristics of each.

I love the 7/8 weight CGR and it’s interesting to hear the comments from the ones that don’t like the rod. Makes me want to experience a rod in that weight class that they do like, maybe it will be transformative.


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Post 02 Jan 2019, 22:17 • #52 
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Joined: 05/22/16
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Location: SJC
I have one. I originally bought it for carp fishing, but discovered that around here I really didn't much care for the "urban fishing experience" :)

After a while I decided to try a Fenglass 7wt, more for largemouth bass from a packraft or kayak. I generally use it with a 7wt Cabelas prestige premier fly line, which works well enough for me (half weight heavy).

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It's been a while since I fished the CGR 7/8, but as I recall the last fish I caught on it was a humongous bluegill (it was a heck of a fighter, too) in my kayak. Ah, dreams of springtime ...


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Post 02 Jan 2019, 23:14 • #53 
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karstopo wrote:
Someone, Ron, anyone, might talk or do a thread about the different rod tapers and the typical casting characteristics of each.

I love the 7/8 weight CGR and it’s interesting to hear the comments from the ones that don’t like the rod. Makes me want to experience a rod in that weight class that they do like, maybe it will be transformative.

The simplest descriptions always get people on their soapboxes over their favorite rods, and will get me misquoted out of context.
For the most part, I'm going to leave out the intrinsic properties of different MOCs and try to limit to the basic load curve down the rod length.

A rod with a stiff butt, slightly softer but still quick mid and softer-yet tip is a progressive taper. Any long rod that's not made to be strictly a distance-casting rod should be progressive. Progressive tapers have good control in close, seem to enhance your accuracy casting long to make you feel like a wizard, and are forgiving on timing and arm movements - the tip flexes enough and the mid loads fast enough that it still draws a decent controlled loop even if we're sloppy casters.

A good dry-fly rod is faster and a bit longer in the mid, with a shorter often softer-yet tip, and possibly stiffer-yet butt - I call these super-progressive. They often don't even load into the butt, which limits the distance they can cast, and the quick-on mid does all the work - makes it feel like you're not doing any of the work.
E-glass can make them with freakishly soft tips, e.g. old Heddon T tapers. What you gain with super-progressive is an amazing ability to cast close, a mid that gets line out in a hurry - both the long mid and short extra-soft tip together give you sharp strikes and protects tippet at the same time.

More line out loads farther down the rod in general. You can move all these points around over the rod length and have remarkably different tapers, and I'm trying to give generic examples. Again using my Water Witch as an example, the rod blank flexes like crazy all over, but it becomes a dry fly rod with a light line, a good progressive mid-weight, and a wet fly rod with a heavy line. It's strictly an e-glass creation - can't make this rod from any other MOC.

So starting back with our progressive taper, slow the mid down a bit, soften the butt a bit, and you have a deep-flexing wet fly rod. These can be very versatile in their ability to throw big hardware with a feeling of power, because the rod delivers power from from both mid and butt. If you speed up the tip at the same time, you have a semi-para taper, which rewards good timing and casting form with longer casts.

The CGR acts like a wet-fly rod with a stiffer butt - the stiffer butt is always good for fighting big fish - it gives you part of the rod you can use to horse and turn the fish. The mid is slower than most progressive tapers, and the butt is stiffer than most wet fly tapers, and that's what makes the rod so temperamental. Your timing can over-load the mid before you get any load into the butt. The trick to getting a long cast with this rod is not overloading the mid.

A para taper - the tip is faster, the mid begins to flex more, and the thin butt flexes deep into the handle. These work incredibly for casting distance in short rods - every inch of the rod is loading the cast. Good timing, short smooth arm movements and haul combine so every inch is storing energy and behaving like a bow shooting an arrow. (variations on paras give them more progressive tips for friendly close fishing)
In long fast rods, they give us TCR and RPLX, which depending on our casting skill, can make us look totally inept or totally casting-god-like.


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Post 02 Jan 2019, 23:18 • #54 
Master Guide
Joined: 01/25/18
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Location: Brazoria County, TX
Thank you. Very helpful.


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Post 02 Jan 2019, 23:32 • #55 
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
you're welcome - glad you could follow it.


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Post 02 Jan 2019, 23:50 • #56 
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Joined: 11/06/17
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Location: South of Joplin
Quote:
The mid is slower than most progressive tapers, and the butt is stiffer than most wet fly tapers, and that's what makes the rod so temperamental. Your timing can over-load the mid before you get any load into the butt.

Pretty good description of it. I found the butt and mid out of balance for my mediocre ability. That doesn't mean it's not perfect for someone else.


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Post 02 Jan 2019, 23:55 • #57 
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Trev, that's why you need to match the line for what you're trying to do - I don't think one line will both roll-cast well and shoot well with this rod.


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Post 03 Jan 2019, 00:33 • #58 
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I put six different lines on it. Mostly used a roll and the mid overloaded way easy. I think I might have liked it better with a 5wt line but had none with me that day on the water. I made it roll the WF6 almost to the running line a few times but it wasn't intuitive. I found it extremely slow on the two or three back cast that I tried, very easy to rush it. Not a bad rod just not what I am looking for.
Funny thing too is that I frequently like rods with heavier than rated lines.


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Post 03 Jan 2019, 00:39 • #59 
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Over-line a progressive rod, which should have a quick mid, and it becomes a wet fly rod.
Under-line it, and it's a close dry-fly rod.


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Post 03 Jan 2019, 09:26 • #60 
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Thanks BD.Good explanation .I like the fact that you chose one of your favorites as a standard and why it works as opposed to all the ones that don't.I have the 8'6 gowdy and have not spent enough time with it.You can feel the whole rod flex into the grip but it is not a noodle.what line works best on this type of taper?I want to make fairly long casts on long leaders for big carp in shallow clear water and big streamers for Lake Michigan smallies in chunk rock break walls.


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Post 03 Jan 2019, 09:41 • #61 
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no time on that rod here, but my 6'3" Gowdy loaded well with both T130 and a short-belly WF5, or any 6-wt.
Guessing yours may be a 7-wt, and I'd probably look at traditional-weighted lines like Monic or 406, Cortland 333/Peach/Hook&Hackle


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Post 03 Jan 2019, 09:51 • #62 
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Thanks didn't mean to derail ,we were discussing the cgr.l know the howdy is not true parabolic .It is 7 and I have used a bass bug taper but it seems to run out of gas.Like the rod is fighting the line.I know I can get more out of this rod with the right line.I think I could fight a tarpon with this thing.Not really but maybe a salt line?


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Post 03 Jan 2019, 10:52 • #63 
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if it's any para, you need to use smooth short arm movements and haul to get the most out of it

otherwise, maybe it is an 8-wt


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Post 03 Jan 2019, 10:54 • #64 
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Joined: 05/22/16
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Thanks for the explanation, that was enlightening. I think I'll try that Mainstream Salt line as a bit of a project (get out the heat gun for some welded loops :) ).


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Post 05 Jan 2019, 07:45 • #65 
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Joined: 10/07/11
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Location: SE MA
The CGR 7/8 is certainly my favorite casting CGR. I pair mine with a SA System 2L 8/9 reel and the Aircel Bass Fly Line, which is described to be for a 7/8 rod. I believe the grams weight is right at 7.5. The line is 80' and the rod shoots the entire line just fine.


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Post 05 Jan 2019, 08:30 • #66 
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https://www.scientificanglers.com/product/aircel-bass/
thanks for adding this
longer tapers, though 210-gr belly, right where I worked out this rod
Image
Trev, this one might even roll-cast well, since most of its weight isn't in the first 10'.
again, my focus for this rod is salt kayak, but this is probably the Perfect freshwater line for this rod.


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Post 05 Jan 2019, 11:17 • #67 
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Ha! That is neat to see the SA Bass Line. AirCels of that taper, or one very much like it, have been around a long, long time, and there was (is?) a similar modestly priced Cortland Line.

I think they are a good choice for many 7 and 8 weight glass rods. I had an AirCel of similar taper on my 9' Sceptre about 40 years ago, the first time I ever cast an entire fly line with it.

Later on it dawned on me that it was "only" an 80 or 82-foot line, so that made it easier to cast the whole line as well--compared to some other lines of the time, typically 90'.

The next time I purposely tried to cast an entire line with some old beater I picked up at a garage sale, I whistled the inexpensive WF (Cortland or SA, I forget which) line right on out there with a snick of the backing knot and a rod's length of greenspot backing as well. But the line was "easy to cast for beginners" and only 60 feet long.


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Post 05 Jan 2019, 12:06 • #68 
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That taper is similar to the Cortland 6wt that I used on the CGR 7/8, that it liked- but that is water past the bridge, the rod was returned. It was too much like the $24 Eagle Claw 6wt that I already own for me to ever feel good about the purchase. It may be a canon or a rocket launcher in the right hands, but not for me. And I'm not sure that my rod and yours came out of the same batch. Bulldog, I think you mentioned needing or liking a stiffer mid in roll casting, the CGR seemed to me to have almost no mid section. Anyway I moved on. Really didn't need another rod that size anyway.
At close or normal casting range bass tapers or longer weight forward tapers roll cast about as well as level line of the next higher weight for me, until you hit the running section. I have an old Gary Borger bass line in #9 or 9/10? that is a beauty roll caster- don't know who made it and don't recall when I bought it. I think the head on it is ~45', but I'm not sure. Wish I had bought the same line in 6&7.


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Post 07 Jan 2019, 12:23 • #69 
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Those E/C rods throw great with a 5dt.I caught at least 100 crappie on a 3 day trip with that rod.I only used it because i did not want my "nicer?" rods in the boat with 2 other guys and my sons 100lb goofy weimaraner.I will probably pick up a cgr 7/8 this spring just because of the short length.For less than a decent on sale fly line those E/C rods cant be beat.It performed well in some pretty good wind tossing weighted flies Side armed casts from the back of the boat dropped flies under over hanging branches a foot or 2 above the surface.It was really fun and made me look like a good caster which i am not most times.Hoping the cgr will do the same with smallish bass bugs and streamers.


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Post 07 Jan 2019, 14:20 • #70 
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Joined: 01/25/18
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the hersh wrote:
Those E/C rods throw great with a 5dt.I caught at least 100 crappie on a 3 day trip with that rod.I only used it because i did not want my "nicer?" rods in the boat with 2 other guys and my sons 100lb goofy weimaraner.I will probably pick up a cgr 7/8 this spring just because of the short length.For less than a decent on sale fly line those E/C rods cant be beat.It performed well in some pretty good wind tossing weighted flies Side armed casts from the back of the boat dropped flies under over hanging branches a foot or 2 above the surface.It was really fun and made me look like a good caster which i am not most times.Hoping the cgr will do the same with smallish bass bugs and streamers.



That’s exactly what the 5/6 and especially the 7/8 weight CGRs do for me, making touchy sidearm casts off the stern of my flatbottom boat and under or between low over the water branches. Never have I tried the E/C rods, though. Slow glass like the CGRs seem ideal for that tricky, small window, under cover casting. I find it much harder to get the feel I want and need in those situations using a fast carbon rod.

I fish Deer hair divers some, mostly on size 2,1, and 1/0 hooks and the 7/8 weight CGR handles them well. The 5/6 weight CGR isn’t quite as capable as the 7/8 weight with those type of flies.


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Post 07 Jan 2019, 15:38 • #71 
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The 7/8 not only cab put that kind of fly into such a spot but has the butt to get a strong shoalie out of the wood before it can get oriented. Very useful rod.


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Post 07 Jan 2019, 16:50 • #72 
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That’s exactly what the 5/6 and especially the 7/8 weight CGRs do for me, making touchy sidearm casts off the stern of my flatbottom boat and under or between low over the water branches. Never have I tried the E/C rods, though. Slow glass like the CGRs seem ideal for that tricky, small window, under cover casting. I find it much harder to get the feel I want and need in those situations using a fast carbon rod.

I fish Deer hair divers some, mostly on size 2,1, and 1/0 hooks and the 7/8 weight CGR handles them well. The 5/6 weight CGR isn’t quite as capable as the 7/8 weight with those type of flies.[/quote]At less than 30.00 the ECs are worth try.I feel it has exactly the action you describe.They also make a 6' 3wt i have not tried.If you can get your hands on a 6' prime it is about the nicest 3wt i have cast.I even cast mine side armed inside the house.I seem to like some of the same rods as BD and you seem to fish similar situations i do,except for salt water.


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Post 02 May 2021, 18:31 • #73 
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Old thread but curious on how you view the SA Mastery Grand slam taper? 205 in 7wt. @bulldog1935


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Post 02 May 2021, 20:35 • #74 
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definite short belly line, short front taper, should work well for distance with the rod


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Post 02 May 2021, 21:29 • #75 
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Joined: 07/22/20
Posts: 16
Thank you. My current line was exactly as you described. A bit heavy. Would cast beautifully, shoot, not worth a damn


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