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Post 28 Nov 2009, 13:32 • #1 
New Member
Joined: 11/27/09
Posts: 9
Just curious if anyone might know what this rod may be worth. It has never been used and I believe it was made roughly in 1962. The number is 7622 and it a
little over 8 ft. It has been contained in original cloth. Thank you.

[Moved from the Wanted section and deleted the extra thread. Tom]


Last edited by jgestar on 28 Nov 2009, 14:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 28 Nov 2009, 13:35 • #2 
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Posts: 4573
Location: US-MT
Hey welcome!
THis post should really be elsewhere, like "Collecting" and Tom will likely more it.
Richard is the Garcia Expert and will hopefully chime in here.
Again, welcome!
Keith


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Post 28 Nov 2009, 14:31 • #3 
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Joined: 01/10/06
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Location: Holly Springs, NC
Yosemitegreg,

Welcome to the Fiberglass Flyrodders! You have a Conolon Royal Javelin made by the National Rod Company. Conolon was purchased by Garcia in 1961, so your rod is probably from 1960 or so. The rod should be 8 feet long and both sections should be the same length. There were some minor variations in the Royal Javelin rods, possibly depending on what reelseats and thread were available to the rod builders.

New, unused, the rod is probably worth about $50-75. I recently purchased one from eBay with the plastic wrapper still on the grip for $40 and I feel I got a good deal. Does your rod look anything like the one in these auction photos?

Tom

Tom


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Post 28 Nov 2009, 16:01 • #4 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 03/20/07
Posts: 2544
Location: Wofford Heights, Calif. Kern River
Good Evening Greg,
Well first off let me say that the rod that Tom picked up in the above link is sort of a misnomer, in that it carries a cork grip protector from the old Narmco Conolon Plant in Coasta Mesa California. This facility was moved in December 1960 to a brand new plant in Santa Ana California. At the time of the move, the Narmco Conolon rod Company was spun off of Narmco Research (Jan 61) and a subsidiary Company, "Conolon" was formed. The purpose was for a sale of the rod company to Garcia, which was finalized in late June or early July 1961. The short period of January 61 until Garcia could get decals printed and rubber plugs for the reel seats imprinted with the Garcia logo "G" took a bit of time, so you will see a few rods such as Toms with the Conolon Logo, the Royal Javelin rod is just such a rod. I suspect its mfg date was that first 6 months in Santa Ana California and that the grip plastic and metal rod tube it originally had would still be bearing the Narmco Conolon Costa Mesa details. I have a couple such rods from this period. What sets them apart is that very short lived "Conolon" decal.
As to the model the Custom Made Royal Javelin was the successor to the top of the line Citation series. Early rods like Toms came in three lengths that I know of all two piece rods, a 7 1/2ft, 7ft 10inches, and 8ft. The rods were detailed on a natural finish tobbacco blank just as you see in the above link.
Next in 62 the reel seat was changed to one that had a rubber "G" plug in the reel seat. The decal was changed to read Custom made by Garcia, the model remaining the Royal Javelin.
In 1963 the rod was changed a little in that the natural finished blank was now a marroon painted one, ferrules were changed to Featherweight Sizematic ferrules with rubber O rings, wrap colors changed as well, also the rod lengths were changed, the only two I know of were a two piece 8ft and a three piece 8ft.
Finally as best I know, the series was dropped in favor of the newly introduced (late 63 for 64 release) line of gold five star Companion rods. (three early series of Companion rods, the Gold 5 star, brown 4 star and Blue 3 star were introduced)
In 1965 the production line was again changed, the star system of quality standards dropped for a few years and 5 new grades were introduced, the Custom Rods in deep marron, Deluxe Rods in natural finish early on, Gold, Brown and Blue. When the first Star systems were reintroduced, the Custom Series carried no stars, the Deluxe became the 5 star rods, gold the 4 star, brown the 3 star and Blue the 2 star.
Greg if your rod is a natural tabbacco finish, has a rubber "G" seat plug and the Custom made by Garcia its a 62, if its Marron with featherweight sizematic ferrules with O rings its a 63.
Collector value especially from Conolon Collectors varies, depending on the rods condition, accessaries, these rods were the best at the time and came with metal rod tubes, early ones would be seen with a Cal-Air aluminum tube and screw cap, the cap would be stamped Narmco Conolon Costa Mesa Inside, the same tubes would have a replacement green plastic cap from 62 on, a paper decal on the top of the rod with the Conolon logo for Santa Ana made Garcia rods, finally a different tube design, sort of like a piece of aluminum pipe with the ends rolled and rubber end caps and a Garcia Conolon decal on the side of the tube. for 63, this tube being painted in the same marroon color as the rod. Rod socks varried from the standard blue sometimes with gold edging for the early rods to a standard Garcia Conolon brown cotton flannel with gold or brown edging for 63, the 63 would have a model tag at the top.

This is a post July 1961 8ft 2piece Garcia Royal Javelin, reel seat has black metal end cap, decal in red says "Custom Made by Garcia" #7622 is the rod model #
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Its hard to read but thats a "garcia" in red
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Typical 63 Royal Javeline, marroon brown blank with copper wraps over black trim, featheweight sizematic ferrules
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Some early Royal Javelin's
This one is like Toms, but a 7ft 6 inch model, with original sock and very short run paper tube with Conolon logo only, same plastic grip protector as toms and Conolon hang tags, note the platic Conolon tube cap with logo
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note use of left over Citation Series cork reel seat type
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Earliest pure Conolon decaling, pre Garcia
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Note this is a Super Z nickel steel ferule with full overwrap
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typical 1962 Garcia Royal Javelin rod sock detail
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1961 real seat butt detail, no "G" late rod, was available before decals and end caps arrived, note these reel seats and rods have the jasper wraps not the Conolon early wraps, this was a Garcia period rod unlike the very early one.
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1962 rubber reel seat detail "G"

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1963 rubber reel seat plug detail "G"
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Richard



Last edited by flyfishing4goldentrout on 28 Nov 2009, 16:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 28 Nov 2009, 16:14 • #5 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/05/09
Posts: 481
Location: liverpool NY
Excellent presentation! A great documentary on a Garcia rod


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Post 28 Nov 2009, 17:59 • #6 
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Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7210
Location: Holly Springs, NC
Richard,

What was the "registration number" supposed to represent? I have the same 78614 number on my rod. I thought it was some type of serial number. My rod has brass Super Z ferrules, varigated orange/black wraps with turquoise painted bands, and a funky double loop, single foot stripper guide. Unfortunately, my rod was also missing the last 1/2" of tip and the original tip top. The seller was clueless about that fact, so mine is a user rod after all. It casts pretty well with a 6 weight line, but I bet it will light up with a 7 weight.

By the way, in your opinion what is Yosemitegreg's rod worth? Provided it is in mint shape?

Tom


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Post 28 Nov 2009, 19:30 • #7 
New Member
Joined: 11/27/09
Posts: 9

I will send pics of my rod as soon as I get my camera fixed. It is a two piece and looks like the last 4 pics that Richard showed; however without the G as shown on the last pic. Also, the tip is 51 1/2" and the butt piece is 47 1/4" ... obviously they are not the same length, but original cloth sock (same as Richard's pic) is designed for the two different lengths. All points it to being a 62 model ... with possibly the butt being from 61 stock?
Anyway, I promise to share a pic in the next couple of days. It has never been used.
Just needed to thank you for so much information ... it's fun learning about the history of the Conolon rods. Hope I can ask future questions about some other fiberglass rods.
Greg



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Post 29 Nov 2009, 03:29 • #8 
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Joined: 05/30/07
Posts: 2333
Location: Arlington, TX
Tom,
Does your rod have downlocking reel seat with a cork insert? I was having trouble seeing it more clearly from the auction photos.
BTW nice catch.

Les


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Post 29 Nov 2009, 03:49 • #9 
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Joined: 06/11/05
Posts: 3327
Location: US-TX
I also have one in mint condition; looks like it was never used. Both sections are 51.5 inches; has the reg # 78614; royal javelin custom built by conolon; has the left over citation series cork insert reelseat-maroon body; gold cap and rings, fully overwrapped ferrules; beautiful, well built rod; I'll try to make a few pics; one of the most beautiful rods in my meager collection-p-


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Post 29 Nov 2009, 05:02 • #10 
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Joined: 06/11/05
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Here's pics of mine; there's nothing to indicate Garcia was involved in this rod; 8.5 foot two piece. Richard, is this pre-62?-p-
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Post 29 Nov 2009, 06:08 • #11 
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Joined: 03/20/07
Posts: 2544
Location: Wofford Heights, Calif. Kern River
Hi Guys, first off for Pearow, yours is the earliest Royal Javelin model, circa January 61-Jun 61, what makes it totally different is the early looped stripping guides with single foot, early spiral wraps, the earliest double diamond "Royal Javelin" decaling and the earliest Conolon decaling. Sense it has the early Citation reel seat with cork and also the Super "Z" full wrapped ferrules its a rare rod indeed. Its my believe that the registered number on the Series was just that, I have the same number on all three rods for mid 61-62, in all three lengths. Toms rod uses the same number and so does yours. The paperwork that came with my minty model has a Conolon registration card, so perhaps that was what was referred too. But no serial number. The only rods I know of for sure that had true serial numbers were the first year Lee Wulff and Charles Ritz rods.

For Tom and Greg, Tom you rod appears to be of the same period as several of mine. I will add this, although I dont have every model of the rod offered over the three years yet. From the beginning the Royal Javeline was a Series, I have and know it was comprised of at least 3 to 5 model of fly rods over each year, there were staggered ferrule models, as well as the standard models. Also there were at least two perhaps three spinning rods offered, and at least one if not two casting rods. Thus far Ive seen no spin/cast rod examples. However that doesnt mean they didn't exist, Conolon had been making spin/cast models as early as 1951 that I know of. Conolon bought the rights to the Super Z ferrules sometime in the late 1950s, they had been using them all through the 50s, during the later years they were made of both NS and Brass, when Conolon produced them they felt the brass was easier to manufacture and fit, thus many of the earliest Garcia Conolon high end rods had brass Super Z ferrules.

Ive never seen a Narmco Conolon Catalogue from the San Diego era (1945-1950) but have many fly rods from this period. The earliest Narmco Catalogue I have is from the first factory location in Costa Mesa. This catalogue is circa 1954-55 and features drawings of the rods as well as descriptions of all products offfered as well as blanks and kits. All are listed as being in Natural finish at the time.
Narmco Conolon moved to another location in Costa Mesa in 1955 and the 57 and 59 catalogues offer further insite including "Names" for some of the series of rods to match with model numbers, as well many of if not all of the none fly rods were beginning to be painted, Narmco had in thier research facility patiented a fiberglass coating that was UV protected by 1956, "Conoguard" which was a hard baked on coating in many colors. This was very popular with buyers of spinning, casting and spin casting patrons. In addition they had coined the "misslelite" description of their new fiberglass blanks, I think as some sort of competion to to Phillipsons "Eponite" and Silaflex's pressure curing blanks, in any case the Misslelite series became quite popular.

As a note here, Conolon rods were very popular, especially in California amoung offshore, surf and pier fishermen, as well as freshwater types, and they sold many many more rods that Phillipson and Silaflex combined. At the time I would say that in the 50s Conolon could have been the largest overall producer of fishing rods of all types. At one point in the new Santa Ana facility Garcia Conolon was producing over 6500 blanks a day.

In any case the early "pre Garcia" marked rods are the hardest to come upon. A rod like Pearows IMHO in one of the rarer staggered ferrule or short models such as the 7 1/2ft rod, with correct rod tube, decaled on the cap for a RJ and Conolon, with hang tags and registration card and proper rod sock is very valuable. As both a collector and fan of this model I would think the range of value complete in mint conditon would be in the $100-200 range. You can drop that in half $50-100 in the absense of the complete tube, sock and tags or if not in mint condition. An excellent used rod absent tube and sock, etc $40-50 depending on seasonal time of offering.

The next pre/post models, the Conolon Registered 78614 models that have the second Conolon decaling, standard stripping guide, etc like the one I have photos posted as well as Toms, I would place again in the $100-200 range in exactly the same condition cavets, again prices dropping quickly in the absense of accessary's or presense of wear.

The 62 series, jasper wraps, Garcia "G" rubber reel seat plug, correct rod sock with info, correct rod tube, mint, with tages, prehaps $75-150 depending again on model and length. Same holds true for the spinning and casting rods. Used or missing accessary's $25-50.

Finally the last year, 63, marron brown models, with Garcia "G" rubber reel seat plug, minty correct wth sock, tube and tages, perhaps $60-125 depending on model and length, Used missing accesary's $25-50.

As with any collectable what for me defines its true value are the rod and accessary's in prestine condition and complete. Things like the cork grip plastic and cork being unsoiled, male ferrule without marks, wraps and finish without sunlight (UV) damage, reel seat unmarked, rod sock clean, unrinkled and unsoiled, no frays or loose threads, tags undamaged, rod tube unmarked, dented or soiled, cap complete with decaling all add value to a collectable model such as the Royal Javeline. In all honesty I have only the one fly rod in such condition and a couple of spin and one casting rod from the Jul 61-Dec61 period, all the rest I have are in some way or another "used" so I fish them.

IMHO the 7 1/2ft and 7ft 10in fly rods are really sweet, with both a DT6F and either a WF7S or DT7S, these rods are not heavy like alot of the 8ft and over models, especially those rated for 8wt lines and above. A good Youngs 3 1/2 inch fly reel will balance the shorter rods perfectly and really give you a fine vintage pair to be proud of. By the way the 7 1/2ft is for a Conolon and a glass rod quite fast, being based on the Citation blank of the same period, fast tip and parabolic, while it flex's to the grip under a load, while casting I would best describe it as a mid flex fast tip. A purely fun rod.

Richard


Last edited by flyfishing4goldentrout on 29 Nov 2009, 06:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 29 Nov 2009, 12:30 • #12 
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Joined: 11/27/09
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Here are a couple pictures of the rod. Am I correct that it is the 1962 model with possibly the post 1961 butt (basing this on the information received thus far by the forum)


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Post 29 Nov 2009, 12:39 • #13 
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Joined: 11/27/09
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Pics of Royal Javelin

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Post 29 Nov 2009, 12:45 • #14 
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Joined: 07/05/05
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Location: US-OH
That's a really beautiful fly rod! Very cool. How's it cast?


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Post 29 Nov 2009, 12:54 • #15 
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Joined: 11/27/09
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Thank you. I have no idea how it casts as it has never been used.



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Post 29 Nov 2009, 14:25 • #16 
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Joined: 05/30/07
Posts: 2333
Location: Arlington, TX
very nice rod!


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Post 30 Nov 2009, 06:03 • #17 
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Joined: 03/20/07
Posts: 2544
Location: Wofford Heights, Calif. Kern River
Nice find, the rod definately appears to be a post July 61 or into early 62 before they received the rubber "G" seat plugs. Does your rod have a rod sock like the one I posted? if so, and the male ferrule shows no signs of scuffs from being joined, and the reel seat shows no signs of having a reel mounted, then although you dont have the hang tags, tube or cork plastic I would definately put the value as mint in the $75 and up pricing if marketed at the right time, i.e. spring after taxes for example. Your female ferrule looks to be in very prestine condition as do the wraps. However a few scratches on the black metal seat plug, on the reel seat from mounting a reel, or on the male ferrule will drop the value quickly to $50 and place the rod in Excellent Condition. Being a staggered ferrule model its seldom seen, if it had been the 7ft 10 inch model or the 7ft 6in model you could easily add at least $25 to its value for each step down in length in mint conditon. The little 7ft 6in was perhaps the finest rod (citation blank) ever made by Conolon prior to their development of the light 2400 series blanks years later.
Richard


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Post 30 Nov 2009, 11:19 • #18 
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Joined: 11/27/09
Posts: 9
Thank you, Richard. It really is nice to hear from such friendly people sharing their knowledge and best of all educating me and fellow forum members. I hope it is ok to ask your opinion on some other rods in the near future. Yes, I do have the original sock as you showed; I probably will hang on to the rod as selling really isn't my thing. I enjoy learning and discovering some of the history attached to fishing gear. How can I contact you in the future or do I just hope you read all the posts? Thank you again. Greg


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Post 30 Nov 2009, 14:11 • #19 
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Joined: 03/20/07
Posts: 2544
Location: Wofford Heights, Calif. Kern River
I would certainly agree, you will find that the correct rod tube and perhaps even the hang tags on another period rod will come up on Ebay from time to time for peanuts, (under $100 with a fly rod in boot) if the tube and tages are your period they would certainly increase your rods value by more than you would spend for them, at least they should based on honest auctions.
Post away, I have a few collectables so will try to help, your Conolon is pretty nice, I think you will be better served keeping it as well. Are you a fly fisher?
Richard


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Post 01 Dec 2009, 11:12 • #20 
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Joined: 11/27/09
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I fly fish but only about once each year ... I fish Lake Almanor during the May Fly Hatch at the end of June and beginning of July. It is so much fun and the fish are very nice ... this year there were several big fish 5 to 7 lb range. (mainly Rainbows but also some very nice German Browns.)


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Post 16 Feb 2011, 15:59 • #21 
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Joined: 12/16/10
Posts: 12
Location: US-WA
I've enjoyed reading about the Narmco / Conolon / Gracia history but I'm stumped at trying to identify the time period of the Gracia Conolon rod I recently acquired. The decal says it's a 2025 8' Dry Fly Action Use: D-HDH-HCF. Gracia is yellow and Conolon is black in color. The rod blank is a natural tobacco brown with a clear coat finish and it is staggered with the butt section measuring 42" and the tip section 54". It has maroon and off white (at both ends of the maroon) wraps. The female ferrule is fully wrapped with a gold trim piece and the male section is wrapped with an anodized (?) gold color insertion piece with an o-ring. The reel seat is down locking with two gold knurled screw down locks and gold colored reel stays. The reel seat body is a brushed aluminum. Patent pending is stamped on the bottom end of the reel stay and no rubber G cap. Could this be an early 1961 rod? The rod is in very fine to excellent condition but did not come with a tube or sock.

I would appreciate any information you can provide (value, grade, age ... ).

Thanks,
Bruce


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Post 16 Feb 2011, 16:30 • #22 
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Joined: 05/09/06
Posts: 2487
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That was a nice score. That rod looked to be brand new. I think in looking around the site I came up with 1962 as the approximate manufacture date but Richard is the expert so I would defer to him to be sure. Either way you have a very nice rod good luck with it!


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Post 12 Jul 2021, 11:06 • #23 
New Member
Joined: 07/10/21
Posts: 3
Location: Sherbrooke, Qc, Canada

Hello guys, i'm new to this forum and to fly fishing...i coudn't resist buying a Garcia Royal Javelin 7691 8'6'' and i have difficulty finding informations on this rod online ! I am wondering what line it could take ? I'm guessing between WT 7 and WT 9 and would appreciate if any of you had more infos on that superb rod ! Thank you in advance


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Post 13 Jul 2021, 07:47 • #24 
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Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 17458
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
My Conolon Royal Javelin pretty much duplicated my SB 323 cane in every function. To me, it was a 4/5-wt for high-stick nymphing, and great line mending.

That said, your rod appears to have a heavier/faster butt section, so my observations may not fit at all.
I recommending working over the post above by flyfishing4goldentrout - he was there at the Conolon factory.

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Post 13 Jul 2021, 10:30 • #25 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/16/05
Posts: 2194
Location: Georgia
Welcome. At that length, from that era, my first thought would be to try try a 7wt and see what happens, expecting that you’d be more likely to want to go up rather than down. But if Bulldog liked his a couple of line weights lower than that, who knows; maybe I’d take reels lined up with 4-9 to the park and see.

But I realize it’s not likely that one who’s new to fly fishing would be ready to do that. So a couple of suggestions; edit your profile (user control panel, upper right of the screen) to include some basic location info and maybe someone will reach out by PM with an offer of a casting session (if you’re in the Atlanta area, I’d be happy to dodge the rain at a park sometime over the next few days). Also, just check back over the next few days and someone might come along and say “that’s exactly like one I had that was great with X wt line.” Some pictures might help with that, especially closeups of any writing on the rod, or even logos and wraps; some posters here have an uncanny ability to recall when a company changed presentation aspects of their rods and what it meant for the evolution of their models.

And here’s where I’ll make a point that new fly fishermen often don’t get. There is no “true” line weight for a rod. There are industry standards for the weight classification of lines (although manufacturers can treat them a little too flexibly) but a manufacturer’s recommended line weight is just that a recommendation. A good place to start, but fishermen,, conditions, and lines differ, and a first reaction that “I don’t like this rod” shouldn’t be the end of the evaluation process but more of a beginning. And that’s even more true of vintage rods. There are rods that are labeled 5/6 that I like with a DT7 and I have a 4/5 that I’ve usually fished with a WF2.

Again, welcome and I hope you enjoy fishing with that rod.


Last edited by Upstreeam on 13 Jul 2021, 21:27, edited 1 time in total.

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