It is currently 29 Mar 2024, 09:19


New Topic Add Reply
Author Message
Lines on the level
Post 05 Aug 2022, 12:51 • #1 
Guide
Joined: 07/17/05
Posts: 114
Location: Chester County, PA
I've been a long time fan of the old peachy lines. Back in the 60s and 70s, I liked the SA Supremes once they had aged a year or three, lost plasticizer and hardened up. Then as SYLK, 444SL, and myriad new entrants from RIO and UK supplies came on the scene, I sampled them all. I hoarded Masterlines, Sunsets and Chalkstreams. I began amassing silk and old nylon braids. Lately I've become infatuated with the 406s especially for cane, glass and older borons. In truth, I love them all.

On another thread, fred: " To be clear. I am quite familiar with the modern DTs made for the new “retro glass” and lots of experience with the WFs in both floating, sink tip and sinking intermediate on my medium and fast action rods. What I was really amazed about was the old level lines. I usually immediately take them off the used reel when I acquire it and put on a short taper DT floating line. But didn’t have time and just tossed three reels in the car. Still in the boxes they shipped in. On my shorter Fenwick rods, after testing them with 3,4,5 and 6wt in both DT and WF, I figured I would try the old lines to see what it was like. Some even had those metal eyelets that stab you with the barb sticking out the side. Added some 7’ tapered leaders with a bit of yarn on the end. And dressed them all with some SA dressing and went back in the yard. In the 30-35’ range, for me, they lawn cast as well as the others. They even formed nice tight loops if I added a haul or two and I was also able to get them to hover and drop gently as if I was trying to present a dry. Not saying that I am going to use these to fish and I am not even sure if these will even float. But like so much of the misinformation these days, I think these might have gotten a bad rap or at least the early developers of synthetic tapered fly lines wanted everyone to think the newer stuff was better. And I am sure a few of the old experts said so because they we just beginning to get sponsors and free equipment to promote. Past 40’, not so great, but I think they would probably roll cast as well as any DT because there is no running line to hinge and mess up the loop. But again, this I off the original topic of recognizing the early and current devotees of the forum."

To me part of a rod's charm is it's receptivity to different line sizes and tapers, and at different cast lengths. I more value sticks with bigger sweet spots. That said, fred has an excellent point about level lines. I've long known about using level lines, running lines, and the back sides of burned out WFs for light line rods, especially 3wt down to 1. When I mike out the taper of those size DTs and WFs, there's not much diameter variation in the taper. I play around with leaders to adjust the line tip for good energy transitions.

tl
les


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines on the level
Post 05 Aug 2022, 13:38 • #2 
Sport
Joined: 05/13/18
Posts: 69
Location: US-KS
Good report


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines on the level
Post 05 Aug 2022, 13:48 • #3 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2498
Location: South of Joplin
A standard DT and a standard WF of the same make should be identical over the first 30' and if you cut off the 6-8' taper of either you will have a level line of the same brand. Taper is important only for soft landing dries and emergers for trout, imo, any sub surface work is better with no taper and while taper doesn't hurt in bass/pan fish angling it isn't at all needed. Even surface fishing for trout level lines can work just fine if the leader does the soft landing work.


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines on the level
Post 05 Aug 2022, 14:53 • #4 
Guide
Joined: 06/15/20
Posts: 260
Location: Toledo, Ohio, USA.
intriguing. I started fly fishing with my dad's old berkely spartan SP 40. I had no idea what I was doing. I didn't even realize at the time, it was only later as I learned more, that the line he had on the reel was an old hollow level line with the barbed eyelet that you stick in the end. Cast that thing for years before I learned any different. Not saying I want to go back to it, but this thread definitely made me appreciate those early days.


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines on the level
Post 05 Aug 2022, 16:04 • #5 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
viewtopic.php?p=55044#p55044


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines on the level
Post 05 Aug 2022, 16:25 • #6 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19078
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
level lines load quicker than a double taper - the latter is about delicate presentation, and ease to turn over once you get past the taper.

If you've ever fished a short belly WF, they're basically a short level line with rear running line to shoot out distance.


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines on the level
Post 05 Aug 2022, 19:44 • #7 
Master Guide
Joined: 06/07/12
Posts: 865
Location: US-CA
Quote:
If you've ever fished a short belly WF, they're basically a short level line with rear running line to shoot out distance.


YES. Yet another example of reinventing something that already exists and adding branding to make it "new". Funny though, weren't tapered lines a big innovation when they came out? I'm old, but not old enough to remember. I do remember level lines being the "budget" option, though.


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines on the level
Post 05 Aug 2022, 21:35 • #8 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2498
Location: South of Joplin
My first fly line, a Supreme didn't work well as I tried to teach myself to cast, so back to the Bait Shop for advice and Dick very seriously instructed me to cut 4' off the taper so that it would load quicker and turn the leader over better. I considered that and decided that given the thing cost almost a day's wages that if it needed to be shorter that SA would have made it shorter. Level lines were still pretty common in the '70s and I still use them for bass fishing, the SA level lines in are on Amazon for ~$20. I don't think Cortland makes them any longer.


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines on the level
Post 06 Aug 2022, 06:59 • #9 
Guide
Joined: 08/19/16
Posts: 314
Location: Brazil
motosacto wrote:
Quote:
Funny though, weren't tapered lines a big innovation when they came out? I'm old, but not old enough to remember. I do remember level lines being the "budget" option, though.


I'm not old enough to remember either. Double tapered fly lines date back to the 19th century, and tapered horse hair lines were made as early as the 17th century.

I do remember that my fly fishing started in the summer of 1966 when I was 14 years old and my father foolishly lent me his green 7 1/2 foot South Bend 'glass rod for 2 weeks while staying with some friends at a lake-side cottage their family had rented for a vacation. Of course it was equipped with a level line.

More recently I have gone back to using level lines when going lighter than 3 weight. At those sizes a level line is certainly delicate enough and the taper is is in the leader. It works for me.


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines on the level
Post 07 Aug 2022, 22:01 • #10 
Guide
Joined: 07/12/22
Posts: 207
I am glad I decided to read the old posts. Back in 2009 people knew that WF lines were not the end all/ be all they claim to be. By coincidence, because I do not claim any definitive planning in my fly fishing journey, I initially bought a lot of different size leader materials and started tying my own leaders, first for salt water, than for indicator leaders after buying a couple of expensive pre made versions, started tying my own for bass poppers. Big Nasty by Rio are nice but I can make them for a fraction of the cost and fine tune them for different weight cheapo EBay poppers. Now after reading the old posts, I know that by tweaking the tapers using Rio hard mono and saltwater mono, I do not need to spend the extra $$$ for a couple of feet of DT on the recommended short taper lines for fiberglass rods. Just use the perfectly usable level lines that I removed from reels it bought. ( I never actually threw them away. Confessions of an old Yankee Hoarder). And add a beefier transition from the level line to the leader. Wiley Coyote. I would declare myself a genius, but everyone would know I learned it on this forum. Thanks guys. Back in the day, it would take twenty years to figure this out, and only if the local fishermen were willing to talk to you. Lol.


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines on the level
Post 08 Aug 2022, 07:30 • #11 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/27/16
Posts: 2327
Location: US-IL
I have a lot of lines of unknown weight as they came with the reels I pick up here and there .If they are in decent shape I clean them and put them on a big spool for storage.I only use 3wts 5\6wts and bass bug lines in 8\9.14 fluro for leaders in the slop .14 to 8 for open water or stream bass .Using a few rods well is more enjoyable than a bunch not so well.Roll casting is very important for my fishing but so is getting a bass bug out past the shore weeds .Sometimes I can throw the whole line with a bass bug. Also need that stout leader to get in.Line is a tool just like the rod.Trying to catch fish and not over think this stuff.


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines on the level
Post 08 Aug 2022, 10:51 • #12 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2498
Location: South of Joplin
Digital "Gram" scales are pretty cheap these days and it takes just a few minutes to measure 30' and weigh it. I think my scale cost ~$8-10 a few years ago. Those used lines are then labeled with grain weight and taper type.


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines on the level
Post 08 Aug 2022, 13:51 • #13 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/27/16
Posts: 2327
Location: US-IL
Your correct Trev,every time i go to buy one they are out of stock.Trying to buy stuff locally as had a few bad online transactions lately.A couple places had a good scale with grams grains ounces etc that would be quite useful for many things but are always out of stock.A couple tackle stores locally are being sold or closing shop so i may try and cut some deals on lines and be done with it.One has a pretty decent amount of NOS lines.Trying to get down to 6 glass FRs 2 or 3 cane and carbon.Sold 4 flyrods last week at a family garage sale for super cheap but glad they are gone.That makes 10 in 2 months i have sold or gifted.Want to give away some lines but i have to at least get in the ball park with line wt .A lot of the rods i have given are to people that dont have 60 plus dollars for a decent line.I probably have a dozen loose good lines but no idea of their weight.


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines on the level
Post 08 Aug 2022, 17:36 • #14 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4966
Location: US-MT
Couple years ago I bought one of those cheap digital scales. works good. Under $10 I think


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines on the level
Post 08 Aug 2022, 18:03 • #15 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2498
Location: South of Joplin
mine (1000gram) was from Harbor Freight ~$9 a few years ago, in stock at the local here for ~$13 currently, per the website. I don't recall why I wanted one at the time but I had unsuccessfully been to a dozen or so places that I thought would have a grain scale and was not even looking for one as I toured the "new to here" HF and when I saw it did not expect it to work well, but price was cheap that I took it home. weighed pennies to check accuracy, which is apparently good and I've weighed all kinds of small stuff since, It does need a certain mass to start it going, it won't weigh a single fly hook, for example. but I work around that by using a "tray" or weighing several very light items together and doing the math. It converts to several units, grams, grains, carat ect. Has a tare function to separate tray weight from contents.


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines on the level
Post 09 Aug 2022, 21:25 • #16 
Sport
Joined: 08/26/19
Posts: 97
Location: US-MI
When I think of all the Medalists and Martins I’ve bought off the Bay that had line on them that I just pitched without another thought it’s disgusting. Shame on me.


Top
  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

New Topic Add Reply



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Del Gue, El Duderino, the hersh and 22 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group