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Post 29 Jul 2022, 11:49 • #26 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2498
Location: South of Joplin
@Drake, I use different knots on different days and have no rules about it. As a kid I got interested in tying every knot in the BSA book and later all the knots in the Blue Jackets Manual , so have little trouble tying any of them, other than 73 year old fingers, but I do use surgeons loop more often than perfection loop (which I learned as "Central Drought Loop" because it draws from the center) although in actuality I rarely use loops these days and I'm not sure why. I probably tie my loops a little longer than most do too. I think the longer loops flatten better and hang up less often in guides, as well as being easier to un-couple when making a change.
I'm pretty sure that when I learned the blood knot that it was called a "barrel knot".
The Tie Fast is one of very few gimmicks that I use or recommend, and I have tied nail knots with a dozen or two substitutes for the horse shoe nail, but the Tie Fast is quick, easy and gives very consistent results, the next best tool for that knot is a tube, but I've tied lots of them with grass stems or twigs. The back to back nail knots make a very acceptable join for leader segments but I only do that in the winter on the bench at home.
I'd encourage you to try everything and use the ideas that work best for you. I've never had any luck using a clinch knot and it works great for others, so maybe that's one knot that I can't tie, because I have over 50% failure with it.


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Post 29 Jul 2022, 12:38 • #27 
Guide
Joined: 12/07/17
Posts: 128
Location: Long Island, NY
For another leader design discussion see this:

https://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk ... reshwater/

I find for making dry fly leaders this technique works well and you can use 6 lb to start: “Building Furled Leaders Without Jigs or Tools”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pbcVaEe3RIs


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Post 29 Jul 2022, 14:44 • #28 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4966
Location: US-MT
Trev, That's interesting about your issues with clinch knot. It's my go to knot.

A buddy of mine will only use a palomor (sp?) knot.

Just to stay on topic, I use a surgeon knot for leader segments. It's stronger (for me) than a blood knot.


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Post 29 Jul 2022, 17:55 • #29 
Guide
Joined: 02/23/11
Posts: 238
Location: Tulsa, OK
Drake and The Hersh,

Sorry to hear about your strokes. I’ve had high Bp since my 30s and have been on meds due to bad genetics. I feel like I had a close call right before getting on meds.

One more knot video I ran across a year or so ago that’s made a big help for me on the water is the Orvis tippet knot and this trick with hemostats:
https://youtu.be/xW8BV3ZeaoE

Really helps with eyesight getting worse and dexterity that isn’t what it used to be.


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Post 30 Jul 2022, 15:42 • #30 
Sport
Joined: 09/14/20
Posts: 74
Location: Wisconsin
I usually use the Trilene knot or Rapala loop (or variation of it with the tag end going toward the fly) for terminal connections. Incidentally, I’ve seen several recommendations for using Rapala loop for leader connections on other sites.


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Post 31 Jul 2022, 06:00 • #31 
Guide
Joined: 05/02/13
Posts: 213
Location: Almonte, ON, Canada
Well to the OP

I do use the tool to add a leader butt to a fly line.

I do not use the tool for double nail knots.

For building leaders, I use in decreasing order, the following knots:
[*] blood knot - no tool
[*] double uni knot knot.
[*] double surgeons knot

The double surgeon knot can be used to create a tag for a fly for a multi fly nymph drift.

For the fly
[*] uni-knot
[*] non-slip knot (lefty's?)
[*] turle knot

For loops, the perfection knot. Most often in the backing to create large loops for fly line changes.

There are other knots I have learnt that are good that I do not use - palomar, Albright, clinch, et cetera.

I use
[*] RIO hard nylon - salt
[*] Maxima Chameleon - fresh water leaders - 25 to 10
[*] Seaquar FC Blue - salt, streamers, wets - 15 to 6
[*] RIO powerflex for 5-7x - dries

[*] Nylon coated wire for Pike

This covers me from Permit on the flats to Altantics on a spey rod to the ever fun panfish and the trying to find a trout in a Trico hatch.


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Post 31 Jul 2022, 16:56 • #32 
Guide
Joined: 07/22/20
Posts: 175
Location: Ancient City, Florida
I like the little tools for double nail knots. A bit slower, but I get a better looking knot. For whatever reason, blood knots are tough on my finger dexterity. If not, I use a double uni. I used to use an albright or Yucatan, but of late, I can easily break them with a sharp tug after cinching.


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Post 31 Jul 2022, 22:03 • #33 
Sport
Joined: 09/14/20
Posts: 74
Location: Wisconsin
Very anecdotal, but tonight I tied a non-slip loop knot on one end of 12 inches of 40 lb. Berkley Big Game mono, and a perfection loop on the other. I lubricated both knots with saliva. I pulled both ends of the piece of line, and the non-slip loop broke. Next, I tied a double surgeons loop on the end of the same line with the perfection loop I had already stressed against the non-slip loop. When I pulled both ends, the double surgeons loop broke. Both knots took considerable force to break, but I was surprised, and will definitely do more experimentation!


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Post 01 Aug 2022, 05:55 • #34 
Guide
Joined: 05/02/13
Posts: 213
Location: Almonte, ON, Canada
Drake,

I know others have reported that Perfection Loops are weak, but I have never had a problem with them. I cannot say the same for double surgeons loop.

My experience, may be good only for me.


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Post 01 Aug 2022, 10:29 • #35 
Sport
Joined: 09/14/20
Posts: 74
Location: Wisconsin
On 12 lb. Berkley Big Game Mono, the perfection loop broke instead of the double surgeon's loop. Tried it twice, and both times the perfection loop broke.


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