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Post 14 Apr 2022, 07:43 • #1 
Sport
Joined: 07/19/20
Posts: 76
Hello all, just a point of reference question for those with experience.
My inventory includes, or has had, mostly Fenwicks of various generations and my favorite Phillipson RF76. I really like my short 5-6 weights, especially the FF70-4 and FF79. Always intrigued somewhat by Orvis driving the fly fishing mail order for most of my 65 years, but never owning any of their rods. I'm wondering how the once popular "Fullflex A" models I see at auction occasionally might compare in the deep flexing quality?
I don't really need another not to use, but a sporty rod would find a place.

Thanks for input as always, Charlie


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Post 14 Apr 2022, 09:25 • #2 
Master Guide
Joined: 01/04/18
Posts: 397
Location: Belair Maryland/Swanton Maryland
Hey Olglass56
The Orvis “A” (amber) Rods were the first glass models actually rolled and manufactured in house by Orvis.
Opinions of the “A” rods run the full gambit . From I love this rod to I hated that rod….
Most lean towards not liking them .. although they have dedicated fans too.
They are Faster action than the earlier Yellow Fullflex rods which were built on Phillipson scotch ply blanks with N/S ferrules and glass ferrule depending on year.
The older phillipson based rods came in 2 flavors
Fullflex- with cigar grip and the classy Orvis wood and aluminum reel seat with brown wraps

They also made a Fullflex II which was same blank and grip but with a black all aluminum reel seat and black wraps.

These rods also are sold as kit rods.

They are wonderful rods

There is also an older Orvis series called the power flex
These were also built on Phillipson blanks.
I’m not sure what construction method was used . I suspect these were based on phillipson Eponite blanks but I need to put one in my lab for analysis…

There’s also a series before that
built on an opaque brown Unsanded blanks that no one really knows anything about.
Not sure who made these blanks.
I just got one over the winter but haven’t really cracked into a serious history analysis just yet..

On the later A/amber rod that you mention I would highly recommend casting one in that length before pulling the trigger.

I personally like the 8ft A rod but wasn’t so stoked on the 7.5ft I tried a few years ago.
Im really into the yellow Fullflex Phillipson based rods.
I currently own (4) 7.5ftrs
2with N/S ferrules and 2with glass ferrules. Phenomenal rods.

They are super sweet and are a great addition to any quiver.

If you live where it’s windy the Amber rods might just be the ticket .. they are faster glass ..

If you have an R56 already and like that rod ?
you need to get a yellow Phillipson based Fullflex rod for the utmost in presentation

Get the A/amber rod if you fight wind all day long..

Either way you’re getting a killer rod ..

Scotto


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Post 14 Apr 2022, 09:51 • #3 
Guide
Joined: 10/06/14
Posts: 309
Location: US-MN
I currently own a 7'6" Fullflex "A" rod, and it is sweet. Not too slow, a perfect crisp action, in my opinion. At one point I owned the 7' 5wt version, which was also sweet, but I convinced myself I didn't need so many short 5-weights, so I sold it to buy something else. One of the few gear regrets that still haunts me...


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Post 14 Apr 2022, 10:19 • #4 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19077
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
My first significant fly rod was 7'6" Orvis Fullflex A in Green Mountain kit. It caught 1000 fish, before I handed it down to my nephew.
The Fullflex A were made in-house by Orvis. Older Fullflex were made by Phillipson.
While the Fullflex A states 6-wt, it takes a 7 to load it deep. That said, it will shoot 130-gr sinking head like a rocket.

Image


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Post 14 Apr 2022, 11:59 • #5 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/09/16
Posts: 746
Location: Colorado
My 7' 5wt Fullflex A is my favorite seven footer.



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Post 14 Apr 2022, 15:35 • #6 
Sport
Joined: 07/19/20
Posts: 76
Thanks all, pretty good start.
Informative rundown there ottobahn, don't know the R56, but my Phillipson is the Royal RF76 and after your review I'm not to enthused about any Orvis Fullflex to compete with her.
The Fullflex A models I've seen were the dark brown, 'glass ferruled, high polished hoods/rings on wood or cork seats ...just as Robert shared his 7" 5 wt. picture of. A 1975 - 80ish vintage, I think.
If I had to characterize what I hoped to find, it's a 7"-7 1/2" 2 piece rod comparable to or as deep flexing as my Fenwick FF70-4 for 6 line. Is there such an animal out there?
Keep the good info. coming, Charlie


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Post 15 Apr 2022, 00:10 • #7 
Master Guide
Joined: 01/04/18
Posts: 397
Location: Belair Maryland/Swanton Maryland
Olglass56
Omg I’m sorry for that typo …
I was at work discussing Mini Coopers and the R56 chassis designation got stuck in my head.
I work at a European performance shop..lol :lol

I meant to say RF76
If you want more Fullflex than your 6wt Royal
Try scoring a RF76L (5) wt


Here is my dirty bakers dozen of Phillipson 7.5ft rods


There’s a reason why you don’t see the Orvis A/amber rod in there .

There’s also a reason why there are 4 yellow Fullflex models ..
Yeah there that good .
Once you fish one you’ll score a backup pretty quick after you “tune” in to these rods ..

I highly recommend you to try one of the glass ferrule 7.5 Orvis/Phillipson rods.

There’s 2 different ones
Ones labeled 7wts (which were rumored to be mislabeled at Orvis ) they are really 5/6 wt rods
I take mine brookie fishing all the time

There is also a yellow Fullflex Orvis/Phillipson rod that is labeled as a 5wt ..
I’ve yet to score one and do an analysis compared to mine..

Watch out for the 7ft pack rod they are true 7wt rods and when assembled measure out to 6’10”
Cool rods but faster action with hella backbone

If you want something sweeter than your ff70??
Then you need one of these puppies!
Fenwick FL 84-5

Absolutely positively the best fenwick 7ftr they ever made .
Closest thing to a one piece feeling rod as you’ll ever get..
As they were sold as 1pc blanks that came with the oversleeve to be added/glued after rod was cut (if you so chose)

These rods are in another ballpark compared to the ferralite rods double or triple digit…
Completely different taper and feel .
Very progressive..
I’d never sell mine .
The word prized possession starts coming to mind.
I joked with the wife about which rods I want to be buried with .
FL84s are on the burial list .. lol :lol

Nothing against the Amber rods fan base,
I told you they have fans .

But notice Scott mentions the crispness and how he like that it’s not to slow..

I was trying to answer your questions regarding what you were specifically looking for .

If you want something more full flexing than your Royal the Orvis “A” amber rods ain’t It!

Like I said the A/amber would be a breezy day rod .. if it was in my quiver
If you contend with lots of wind the A rods crispness is great .

I already have plenty of Heddons for windy days though..

Hope this helps,
Scotto

Edit-
oh I forgot to mention that my master g-Mf76 and the Abercrombie Yellowstone rods are the same blank/taper as your Royal
Although royals were batch picked for the best of the best to become royals.

Both have 8 total guides inc stripper and tip top
I believe your Royal is the same
My RF76L has 8 total guides but different spacing as my master and Abercrombie rods
The Royal only has the stripper guide on the butt section
Master and Abercrombie have the stripper and the first guide on the butt section

The Yellow Orvis/Phillipson N/S ferrule and glass ferrule rods come with 10 total guides
With the stripper guide closer to the handle by 2inches compared to my master and Abercrombie rod

The extra guides and different spacing really help the Yellow Fullflex rods fully flex!!

If you wiggle tested them to your royal difference is nominal .

The difference detween the rods becomes much more clear and pronounced once you actually take the Yellow rod fishing .

I assure you it would not be a redundant choice to score a yellow Fullflex.

One roll cast of the the Fullflex will make a believer out of you ..

If your lucky enough to scoop one up and don’t like . You’ll have zero trouble unloading it.
Heck I’d buy it.
Scotto


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Post 15 Apr 2022, 09:31 • #8 
Sport
Joined: 07/19/20
Posts: 76
Wow Scotto, that's an impressive array of rods! And one length at that.
I knew that was a typo from your meticulous nature.

I'll be sure to keep searches installed for the prime models you mentioned, especially the ten guide models. I appreciate a stripper closer to hand, I've even added one on a few rods. The so called "tamer guide" bastardized rods are ruined to others, as are my tasteful (to me) short fighting butt mods on a few too. Life's too short now not to please myself, plus I love the customization tinkering.

My practical reasoning for the butts is a bumper to protect the reel, counter balance help with light reels on 'glass, and a lever point in my forearm when working larger fish on light rods.
Sounds like we're looking for the same rod! Thanks Scotto.


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Post 16 Apr 2022, 03:24 • #9 
Master Guide
Joined: 01/04/18
Posts: 397
Location: Belair Maryland/Swanton Maryland
Charlie,
Thank you so much for making my day with your comments about my rod collection and my Meticulous Nature.
When your wife is a scientist and you work around very $$$$ European cars all day
It trains you to be extremely meticulous.
Audi /BMW/ Benz owners aren’t like your typical Ford,Honda Toyota owner .
You’d better be on your game if your working behind our service and parts counter.
The minutiae that is involved is mind boggling.
Im versed in complete tuning solutions for all water cooled Audi/Vw vehicles 1973 to present.
It’s why I go fishing right after work to switch my mind off and put it into another gear.

Im loving your whole mindset..
Life is to short to fish a stock rod.. :lol
I reserve the right to tweak,tune,hot rod or resto-mod any of my rods as I dang well see fit
I need a rod that fits me.

My historical or collector grade rods generally stay stock.
Like this brand new old stock Clearwater rod with my customized Orvis rods with winding check transition


Many of the rods I’ve gotten have an issue or 2
So it’s easy as pie to justify to mod or not to mod??
My south bend custom Susquehanna special

If I had my way all my rods would have a small fighting butt and a western grip

Even my Beloved Fullflex rods aren’t safe from mods..

One of my 7.5” with 10mm and 12mm stripper upgrade.

I like 2 strippers and a transitional threaded winding check on Most of my rods ..
Fighting butts and reel seat changes if need be some possible reshaping cork to fit my Lee Wulff casting style ,
If the rod is supposed to be an extension of yourself
It stands to reason why you would want to express your attributes with the rod to compliment one another .
Sometimes I’m a hyper-spaz and want something with optimal performance because I’m pounding water … so the larger diam stripper plus the switching out of the first guide to a stripper guide.
Other times I’m super chill and the rod doesn’t have to go to 11/10ths so the stock Orvis rod with the tiny single stripper is what gets fished.

Looking forward to seeing your Phillipson Royal getting bent. And your fenwicks too
Scotto


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Post 18 Apr 2022, 09:39 • #10 
Sport
Joined: 07/19/20
Posts: 76
Well Scotto, I continue to be impressed with your fine rods and our shared unabashed customization! Especially pleased to have so much in common since I'm a strictly "blue collar" retiree in a state (Hoosier) that has few fly fishers. Some funny dialogue through the years on that for later!

My RF76 is as beautiful as your 'L, and wears mod's of a subtle butt, shaped as much as possible like the fore grip, and a a matching double loop tip top (Recoil Ti small). I go back and forth between an Orvis C.F.O III and a '60s vintage Medalist 1494 with counter weight and OnePhoot drag disc -the later really the most fitting -wouldn't you say?

Hopefully I can one hand some good photos to share here, if spring rains subside and I get my rural lawn beat down...lol. Warmwater species only, save a really technical tailwater nymphing opportunity. Small rivers lightly fished by spin cast baitfishers give me black bass to 16"-18" - best 4 1/2# smallmouth, longears and rock bass to 8", with other sunfish varieties and an exciting carp thrown in occasionally.

As this has taken a rather personal turn, I'll probably PM you to carry on the conversation going forward.
Great enjoyment in our exchanges is anticipated, Regards Charlie

Sorry to add on, but I'm onto a potential buy. What details would you offer about an Orvis custom on a pea green blank, with female ferrule metal "ring", cigar grip taper, that's 6'7" in length? No markings, black wraps with red trim.
Might jump it, if it's not too light for anything I fish.
Thanks some more, Scotto!


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Post 18 Apr 2022, 13:11 • #11 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 05/19/14
Posts: 3924
Location: USA - Illinois
I know some have strong opinions on certain rods, and I happen to love my 7 1/2' Fullflex "A". Casts a nice DT5, any 6 and a WF7 maybe best. Mine has the more spartan all metal reel seat, logo rod sock and rectangular plastic rod "tube". Perfect with any Medalist 1494.


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Post 18 Apr 2022, 18:02 • #12 
Sport
Joined: 07/19/20
Posts: 76
Thanks all replies. I have another rod for this quandary, where would the Orvis Golden Eagle model land in this deep flex search? I just grabbed a 6'6" -4 weight that's going to be pretty sporty for my purposes. I love a good squalling drag anyway! Any experience with this model out there to interject? -Charlie


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Post 18 Apr 2022, 18:23 • #13 
Master Guide
Joined: 01/04/18
Posts: 397
Location: Belair Maryland/Swanton Maryland
That rod is the freakin ultimate unicorn
That Golden eagle is equal to the Phillipson Epoxite Midge rod.
Super stellar score .
That’s as full flex as it gets for a Phillipson!
end of story !!!!
OMfreakinG!
:eek


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Post 19 Apr 2022, 05:50 • #14 
Sport
Joined: 07/19/20
Posts: 76
Well not really... As a couple of members already know, it's actually an Orvis kit rod, but still a Phillipson supplied blank.
Built by someone for practical purposes, not the show. Sparse black wraps on pea green blank, some red trim bands - (only at the rod ends?), no markings of any sort, and not quite an inch LONG at 6' 6.7"... in the butt section. Maybe just an untrimmed blank, it appears well done and unfished in the pictures, not in hand yet. Sort of like a barn find sports car (name your brand) with no badges or VIN.

The fish will never know, and the plain Jane part will take the guilt out of my customization and tinkering with aesthetics. It's perfect for me. I say I'm no collector, but you can't tell by looking.

It will wear a late 70s CFO III with WF5F Rio Lightline for a start.
Sorry for the unintended deception, but time was important at the moment. Hope this thread hasn't gotten too far off the story line because I'd like to hear more!
Charlie


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Post 30 Apr 2022, 11:20 • #15 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/11/05
Posts: 1008
Location: US-NY
My first real fly rod was a Fullflex A 8’ 7-weight, which I bought in 1979. It’s still a great rod and I still use it, mostly for warmwater. I’ve always wondered about the 7-1/2’ 6-weight. I managed to get one recently and took it out for a spin today. I loved it. With a DT6 Air Cel Supreme, it did everything I asked from it.


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Post 08 May 2022, 06:55 • #16 
New Member
Joined: 11/09/14
Posts: 12
Location: US-PA
ottobahn wrote:



Scotto, how did you build up the winding check area to make those transitions? Nice work!
Mike B


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Post 04 Jun 2022, 08:17 • #17 
Master Guide
Joined: 01/04/18
Posts: 397
Location: Belair Maryland/Swanton Maryland
Skeet6 wrote:
ottobahn wrote:



Scotto, how did you build up the winding check area to make those transitions? Nice work!
Mike B

Hey mike I had those tapered winding checks done by a local Rod builder who just shut down his shop .
I have a surgically repaired thumb so i can’t cast thumb on top..
I fish Lee Wulff/ Gary Borger style index finger on top so those checks are like a must for me.
Cheers Scotto


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