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Post 07 Jan 2022, 10:52 • #1 
Guide
Joined: 07/22/20
Posts: 128
Location: US-CA
I have a FF85 7/8/9 on it's way, very excited to try it out on the bays/beaches around San Diego.

Thinking about pairing it with a 1495 1/2 and a DT or WF 8WT.

I'm new to glass and was wondering why DT lines are so popular with glass rods, even in these heavier weights? Is it because that's what was used when "back in the day" or is their a true performance advantage?

Brian


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Post 07 Jan 2022, 11:53 • #2 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/10/07
Posts: 1632
Location: The Netherlands
I wrote this several years ago:
https://bassbug.blogspot.com/2017/08/th ... -line.html


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Post 07 Jan 2022, 12:01 • #3 
Guide
Joined: 07/22/20
Posts: 128
Location: US-CA
Thanks for the info!

Also just saw the long thread of DT versus WF a few posts below.

I guess the question should be: why are fiberglass fly rodders the only ones to appreciate the advantages of DT lines versus the general fly fishing public? :-)


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Post 07 Jan 2022, 12:03 • #4 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19078
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
The last answer is probably because we're using big reels and have room for DT - all around better choice for trout fishing,
but I would think inshore fishing, you're going to want to shoot a few big flies.


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Post 07 Jan 2022, 12:19 • #5 
Guide
Joined: 09/05/17
Posts: 305
Location: On a Stream
BrianN wrote:
I have a FF85 7/8/9 on it's way, very excited to try it out on the bays/beaches around San Diego.

Thinking about pairing it with a 1495 1/2 and a DT or WF 8WT.

I'm new to glass and was wondering why DT lines are so popular with glass rods, even in these heavier weights? Is it because that's what was used when "back in the day" or is their a true performance advantage?

Brian
To answer your first question - nostalgia.
If your fishing bays and beaches I would recommend a beach/surf line.


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Post 07 Jan 2022, 12:47 • #6 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 2087
Location: US-PA
All my graphite trout rods (and bamboo) have DT's on them too, so it's not just a glass thing with everyone.


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Post 07 Jan 2022, 13:24 • #7 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/27/16
Posts: 2327
Location: US-IL
I like them for lawn/practice casting yet most places i fish need to load short so am partial to WF/basss bug tapers for everyday fishing.For panfishing i like a DT for the lighter touch and distance and delicate landing of top water bugs bluegills and crappies seem to enjoy.


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Post 07 Jan 2022, 13:55 • #8 
Master Guide
Joined: 01/21/12
Posts: 462
Location: US-NY
For good casters DT line (or a longbelly WF line) will almost always be the best choice for dry fly fishing for trout. Regardless of what your rod is made out of.


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Post 07 Jan 2022, 14:16 • #9 
Master Guide
Joined: 07/26/21
Posts: 383
Location: North West Georgia
I have a post detailing my line experiments with an ff85-5, its somewhere here on the first page. Within 40 ft or so, the only difference between dt and wf lines is going to be how it feels in your hands and how it loads the rod (nuanced). Ive felt plenty of wf lines that I didnt like at all on a given rod but a 444 peach in the line weight listed on the rod always seems to cast atleast acceptably. This is probably because of how off the walls some of the newer wf tapers are.

A good dt is often cheaper. The 444 and cortland sylk have both done great for me. 406 lines are popular here but I havent tried one yet.

Specific to the ff85, I have found that if I dont need to shoot more than about 10 ft of line the 444 peach dt in 7 or 8 is great. If I need to shoot line I have an old airflo wf10 that came on my reel that will allow me to shoot out casts of 60ft or more from the butt of the rod to the tip of the line. I didnt like the mastery bass bug wf8f on this rod for whatever reason.

For salt, if I were you, Id pick a line that is a true to weight 8 or 9 weight with a more traditional wf taper. I would stay away from the tapers that put a lot of weight at the tip of the line like mastery bass bug or the rio small mouth. You may end up buying a "7" to get a "9".


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Post 07 Jan 2022, 17:19 • #10 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
Nostalgia has nothing to do with it.

DT lines best suit the loading, casting, and fishing characteristics of 'glass rods. That said, many WF lines can be used very effectively and one might suit your rod and intended fishing with it better. Fenwicks are a typical example, with a recommended WF or DT according to the fishing to be done.

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=46792&hilit=load+gradually#p190409


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Post 07 Jan 2022, 17:33 • #11 
Guide
Joined: 07/22/20
Posts: 128
Location: US-CA
Any thoughts on sinking lines? I've found it's difficult using floating lines in the surf, even though the fly itself gets down, the churn of waves messes with floaters whereas a sinker will get underneath the surface and is less affected. Fishing in bays and channels is usually 15-30' down to get to fish, so a sinking line is a big help.


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Post 07 Jan 2022, 17:43 • #12 
Guide
Joined: 09/05/17
Posts: 305
Location: On a Stream
You should have a variety of sinking lines for beach/surf fishing. I would at least use an intermediate line to get below the surface. If not wanting to invest in a variety of lines get an intermediate, and a variety of heads you can swap out depending on conditions. While not difficult beach/surf fly fishing is a specialized endeavor.


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Post 07 Jan 2022, 17:54 • #13 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/09/05
Posts: 2524
Location: US-CO
Lots of opinions here...probably most are grounded in experience. As others have said, unless they are specialty lines, WF and DT lines frequently have very similar tapers for the first 35 feet of line. Beyond that distance, a DT line offers the advantage of mass in the running line (which is missing in a WF line) which is very helpful when mending in currents. But, the very lack of that mass in the running line allows a WF line to shoot farther, which is what I think you will be looking for. The lighter backside of the WF line might also allow you to keep more line in the air without overloading the rod and collapsing the cast.

If I were going to be fishing bays and beaches in the ocean, my preference would be to look for a WF line with an intermediate sink rate because you will probably be going for distance more than an ability to mend the line to control drift. I keep a Cortland Clear Tip Intermediate sink rate line for just such a purpose, although I have fished in those conditions only on occasion.

Good luck! Enjoy your new rod!


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Post 07 Jan 2022, 18:31 • #14 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/21/06
Posts: 3081
Location: Orygun
DTs are fantastic....for the majority of trout fishing. If one were to venture out of that little microhabitat of dry fly trout fishing, one might discover that there's better tools for the job (staying within the fly fishing realm).


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Post 07 Jan 2022, 19:23 • #15 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 10/18/12
Posts: 1712
Location: Bozeman, MT
DT lines rule!!! IMHO :)


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Post 08 Jan 2022, 09:02 • #16 
Sport
Joined: 02/10/17
Posts: 40
Location: US-TX
For me at least, I feel I catch more trout with a DT line--mostly dry fly fishing. Here on the rivers of the Hill Country
in Texas, it is the WF line that is my preferred set up. Using 406 lines for both


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Post 08 Jan 2022, 14:42 • #17 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/24/11
Posts: 1144
Location: Belgium
For trout fishing DTs are everthing that's needed, no nonsense and two lines for the price of one - with a spare front taper if the one that's fishing gets damaged. What's not to like? Above a 6W, DTs can be hard to find, require a big reel and are less than ideal if the fishing requires repeated shooting of line.


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Post 08 Jan 2022, 15:42 • #18 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 03/30/09
Posts: 1525
Location: Hamilton,Ontario,Canada
I have a DT7F on a 1495 1/2 reel and some backing.A DT8F would fill up the reel quite a bit so I dont know how much backing you would get on it.


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Post 08 Jan 2022, 18:36 • #19 
Master Guide
Joined: 07/21/21
Posts: 447
Location: Florida
When you are fishing vintage glass DT is always a safe bet. You know what you are getting, no surprises. My vintage glass Phillipsons and Fenwicks love them.


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Post 08 Jan 2022, 21:57 • #20 
Guide
Joined: 07/22/20
Posts: 128
Location: US-CA
Stonefly wrote:
I have a DT7F on a 1495 1/2 reel and some backing.A DT8F would fill up the reel quite a bit so I dont know how much backing you would get on it.


Yikes, that could be problem in saltwater if you hook a big one. Would a 1498 be too heavy for this rod (FF85 7/8/9)?


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Post 09 Jan 2022, 09:00 • #21 
Guide
Joined: 09/05/17
Posts: 305
Location: On a Stream
If you insist on a classic reel I wouldn't be overly concerned with weight. Line/backing capacity should be first and foremost especially with a click/pawl reel. Even a small saltwater fish can peel off line quickly. Consider using gel-spun backing to get more on the reel.

I'm sure you know this however I'll state it. Clean your gear thoroughly right after fishing, even if it does not get wet, just being in the salt air will quickly impact your gear in short order.


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Post 09 Jan 2022, 11:23 • #22 
Guide
Joined: 04/26/19
Posts: 179
Location: L'Étoile du Nord
With all the line choices these days, you can get WF lines with a longer front taper, short for turnover and of course DT lines with similar options, It really depends on the fly and the range for me.

When I`m fishing dry flies on my home river and fish long enough for the whole head to be out and I can use the rear taper on a WF that is nice.

I see people using a WF line and fishing short and not really using the line, maybe even clunky because of the range, where a DT is a much better choice for dry fly presentation.

its all situational for me. I like both equally.


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Post 09 Jan 2022, 14:09 • #23 
Guide
Joined: 07/22/20
Posts: 128
Location: US-CA
cappy wrote:
Line/backing capacity should be first and foremost especially with a click/pawl reel. Even a small saltwater fish can peel off line quickly.

Don't the Medalists use a form of disc drag? I wouldn't expect them to compare to modern disc drag systems, but shouldn't they offer something more than click/pawl?

BTW, I won a 1495 1/2 on the auction site, so I'll have to make it work. Will try a WF sinking line and put on as much 20 lb gel-spun backing as possible and hope for the best. If I get spooled (that would be something, but there are sharks and barracuda around here), then I'll have the excuse of getting a bigger reel!

My target species aren't that big: corvina, croakers, surf perch, spotted bay bass, halibut. It would be a rare day one of these could take me into the backing.


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Post 09 Jan 2022, 14:35 • #24 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2498
Location: South of Joplin
BrianN wrote:
Would a 1498 be too heavy for this rod (FF85 7/8/9)?

I liked the 1498 on that rod, but your 1495 1/2 will be just fine.

I use DT floating lines on all my rigs regardless on material, because the roll cast and mend better at a distance than short bodied WF or other tapers. However I am fishing small to medium streams and for salt use would change over to WF just to get more reel capacity. I'd probably also choose a #9 intermediate line for that rod and light salt, but it's been 2-3 years since I used that rod and about thirty years since I did salt, so ...
If you use one of the polyethylene 40# braids (Spectra, Dyneema, PE, Gel Spun) as backing rather than 30# Dacron, you can get quite a lot more feet of backing on the reel and because the WF is 2/3s small diameter running line you can fit perhaps twice the amount of backing that you could with DT.


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Post 09 Jan 2022, 14:50 • #25 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/10/07
Posts: 1632
Location: The Netherlands
Unknownflyman wrote:
I see people using a WF line and fishing short and not really using the line, maybe even clunky because of the range, where a DT is a much better choice for dry fly presentation


DT making better presentation is a myth that doesn't seem to go away...

As many, if not the majority, WF lines these days are made for 'performance' they are heavier than the AFTA line designation and have shorter front taper to turn over more abruptly. These two adds up that they make a delicate presentation a bit of challenge.

Any WF that's 'just' a WF without any performance characteristics will make a delicate presentation. Any fly line that has a twin brother, in WF and DT, (like Cortland 444) will have identical taper profile up to 30 - 35ft (that's the part where on a WF the running line appears).


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