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Re: Soft hackles
Post 06 Dec 2021, 12:39 • #26 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 2098
Location: US-PA
Speaking of wire bodies...

2000 years ago on the advice of none other than Vince Marinaro, I stated messing around with horsehair for bodies which I got from violin bows.

Vince told me how to "wash the strands" which removed some of the whitish exterior on the hair and made it clear. I would then dye the horsehair different colors. I found that the color was more pronounced if I painted the hook shank white, so I did that in advance and soaked the hair before winding it on the hook.

The hair was fine enough to be able to fashion really small flies, although in those days for me it was nymphs and a small red worm which was the ticket at Falling Springs.

Later I discovered if I took Swannundaze (remember that?) or D-Rib and heated it in boiling water, I could stretch it to make REALLY thin ribbing so horsehair went out the window.


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Re: Soft hackles
Post 06 Dec 2021, 13:07 • #27 
Master Guide
Joined: 07/26/21
Posts: 386
Location: North West Georgia
if a fellow was willing to spend a good chunk of change to buy one and only one type of neck/cape for soft hackles size 12-16, what would you recommend? Partridge skin? perhaps a whole pheasant skin for all of the other bonus type materials one might find on such a thing? Ive been tying with a cheap hens neck and its not too bad other than the fact that I have a hard time not breaking the stems while palmering.

Bamboozle -when using the bead chain for ants, how do you keep the beads from ending up perpendicular to the shank like a set of eyes? or perhaps it doesnt matter when the hook is the same rough length as the piece of beadchain? I suppose you would coat the hook shank in thread first? thats a very interesting idea. Where you using the horsehair for ribbing or for full bodies?


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Re: Soft hackles
Post 06 Dec 2021, 13:19 • #28 
Guide
Joined: 04/04/13
Posts: 197
Location: Central Maryland
Bamboozle wrote:
although in those days for me it was nymphs and a small red worm which was the ticket at Falling Springs.


Same here, although the small red worm was more effective in Big Spring.

I fish both places with soft hackles now.


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Re: Soft hackles
Post 06 Dec 2021, 14:03 • #29 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 2098
Location: US-PA
BrookieBoy: Wrapping the shank fully and completely over the thorax area keeps the bead orientation in place for me. I also like to use heavy thread 3/0 or GSP for my lashing.

Horsehair or "thinned" D-Rib was/is used for full bodies like I use wire.

BTW - Buy a full partridge skin and have at it. Also look at these links for those bigger feathers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ys6zTeTT68&t=6s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31DWumnrPIs\

Redietz:

Your right, I got my "springs" mixed up, it was Big Springs!


Last edited by Bamboozle on 06 Dec 2021, 15:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Soft hackles
Post 06 Dec 2021, 14:23 • #30 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2511
Location: South of Joplin
yeah I remember the 'Swannundaze Craze" and eventually throwing away several packages of Swannundaze. I don't recall the patterns it was bought for but I know that I never caught a single fish on them. I never thought to heat and stretch the stuff, I did consider square braiding it into key fobs.


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Re: Soft hackles
Post 06 Dec 2021, 15:23 • #31 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 2098
Location: US-PA
When I was not using Swannundaze stretched for full bodies, I used it for ribbing on stonefly nymphs & still use it and D-Rib for that purpose. I also fashioned emerger bodies on curved hooks than hung below the film from it and I made a cool woven body stonefly nymph modeled after a wool one I used to tie that I was crazy about for a few years.

The Swannundaze version was a bust. :)

Yea, Swannundaze... I still have about a dozen packages which ALMOST rivaled the quantities I had of the other fad material of the era, sheet latex... ;)


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Re: Soft hackles
Post 06 Dec 2021, 21:38 • #32 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/27/16
Posts: 2334
Location: US-IL
BB you can get full pheasant and partridge skins for not a lot of money and each will yield 100s or more flies from each.I fish 99% warmwater and the sunfish tear the partridge to pieces.They love those little barred fibers.I tie them in clumps on the flanks of nymphs and are a little more durable but are not as effective.They really appreciate the action of a soft hackle as it kicks and pulses on slow fall.They never seem to make it to the deeper darker water where the larger fish wait as the dinks destroy in fractions of a second which took me 10 minutes to create.


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Re: Soft hackles
Post 07 Dec 2021, 08:27 • #33 
Guide
Joined: 12/16/15
Posts: 135
Location: MSP
Don't overlook that most all upland birds and non-waterfowl have great soft hackle feathers. My favorites are starling and grouse (ruffed, being here in MN). You can get both of them pretty cheap, plus a ringneck pheasant for probably 50-60 bucks for all three. Partridge is getting really expensive these days - that 50-60 bucks will get you just one partridge skin.


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Re: Soft hackles
Post 07 Dec 2021, 08:50 • #34 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8931
Location: US-ME
The Noll Guide to Trout Flies is another for viewing old standards. Personally, I think spending time fishing is better than plowing through too many of these books. Read enough of them to know what to forget. In fishing or flytying, it is most valuable to learn the HOW and pay less attention to the what.

Presentation, not pattern, is what makes a fly look like what a fish wants it to be. Materials and tying style need to lend themselves to the desired presentation(s). That's why the "soft" hackle form is so versatile.

That's also why, as Trev mentioned, you want to be careful observing styled up, in-the-vise or display tray, beautifully tied, perfect-to-pattern flies. Great craft than can lead to great fishing.

Nevertheless, most are vastly overdressed when it comes to fishing. Chunky attractor patterns that imitate larger terristrials might be the exception. Otherwise, the less material, the more supple the motion and color blending of materials once wet, thus the more lifelike the form.

That said, when it comes to soft hackles, about all I have the dexterity to tie any more, I put a fairly compact body, but one that can be picked out if I want to modify it astream for more bulk. Similarly, I put more hackle/soft fiber than usually needed, to be modified astream as need be. Ribbing can be for appearance, durability of the body, weight distribution, and so on. with wire ribbing or full wire for mostly subsurface fishing.

Because soft hackles are such versatile patterns, you can pretty much forget patterns and just have a range of sizes and color combos. The presentation will make one of them look exactly like what the fish wants.


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Re: Soft hackles
Post 07 Dec 2021, 13:28 • #35 
Sport
Joined: 10/30/18
Posts: 75
Location: Gateway to Death Valley
BrookieBoy wrote:
if a fellow was willing to spend a good chunk of change to buy one and only one type of neck/cape for soft hackles size 12-16, what would you recommend? Partridge skin? perhaps a whole pheasant skin for all of the other bonus type materials one might find on such a thing? Ive been tying with a cheap hens neck and its not too bad other than the fact that I have a hard time not breaking the stems while palmering.
...


I like partridge. To me it just looks more buggy in and out of the water.

I spin it in dubbing loops instead of wrapping. Solves the problem of trying to size the feathers to smaller hook sizes and it looks less neat and more err.... buggy!

Another advantage of spinning partridge hackle is that those small bags of assorted hackle that everyone complains about not being useable (for smaller sizes) become usable.


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Re: Soft hackles
Post 07 Dec 2021, 16:28 • #36 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/27/16
Posts: 2334
Location: US-IL
toothybugs wrote:
Don't overlook that most all upland birds and non-waterfowl have great soft hackle feathers. My favorites are starling and grouse (ruffed, being here in MN). You can get both of them pretty cheap, plus a ringneck pheasant for probably 50-60 bucks for all three. Partridge is getting really expensive these days - that 50-60 bucks will get you just one partridge skin.

Did not know partridge became so pricey.I have a full skin and a bag of pieces someone gave me.You can get a full pheasant skin minus head and tail feathers for 15 bucks.I still have bags of pheasant and chukar wood duck etc from hunting and friends who hunt alot still.I bought 3 strarling full skins for 10.00,I could shoot them in my yard but why for that price.


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Re: Soft hackles
Post 07 Dec 2021, 16:58 • #37 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8931
Location: US-ME
I'm not fussy. Lots of birds have downy feathers. I don't care what the feather is called, as long as sections are fairly soft and will be wavy when wet. Ordinary "streamer and wet fly" hen necks have plenty. Other than hackle softness and length, I just pick the color combinations and barred/mottled that I want. Ruffed grouse, woodcock, mallard flank feathers (some died and grizzly(some died) are probably what I use most.


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Re: Soft hackles
Post 08 Dec 2021, 09:22 • #38 
Guide
Joined: 08/11/20
Posts: 236
Location: Ontario, Canada
Another bonafide soft hackle addict here. As others have stated, the books by Nemes and Hughs are excellent references, packed with great stories, history, and patterns. Sizes 12 and 14 are my go-to and I like partridge a lot. After reading Nemes's books I started using starling for smaller patterns. The brookies seem to especially like the "Little Black". You can see it in the photo, working as advertised. I've had good success fishing soft-hackles across and down, with takes both on dead-drifts and the swing.




Nemes describes well, water that is best suited for these flies. I'll fish 'em with a small bead head if the water is a running a littler faster.



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Re: Soft hackles
Post 08 Dec 2021, 09:27 • #39 
Guide
Joined: 04/04/13
Posts: 197
Location: Central Maryland
the hersh wrote:
Did not know partridge became so pricey.


Not only has demand gone up, but there's been some sort of avian flu that's been decimating farm production of partridges.


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Re: Soft hackles
Post 08 Dec 2021, 11:05 • #40 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8931
Location: US-ME
Thanks for detail pics, Big Heavy. The flies shown made me think of a few other points they illustrate well. First, the sparse look of a soft hackle when wet, as in the beadhead fly. The one shown dry might appear about the same once wet, or perhaps fuller. Doesn't matter, it illustrates a good default appearance, easily trimmed down astream according to conditions. As shown, it will float better and "higher" after a few false casts, than one with, let's say, half that in hackle.
On the beadhead--whether it is an official "soft hackle" pattern or not, a tail of soft fibers is good to throw into some flies. Like excess hackle, it can always be trimmed away astream. As for the bead and ribbing, they add durability and influence sink rate. Being too lazy to do the additional step of putting a bead on, I just wrap wire ribbing to form that shape, if I want that element. There are other ways to get a fly down, so I think of beads or the forewrap of wire as a control element that helps the fly maintain a downward or flat attitude, regardless of the depth. It does seem to help the most when the fly is fished deep.

Thanks again for great pics of default styles.


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Re: Soft hackles
Post 08 Dec 2021, 11:19 • #41 
Guide
Joined: 06/07/15
Posts: 162
Location: US-PA
I generally fish soft hackles as a dropper behind an EHC - I cast the rig upstream and fish it dead drift then when it gets downstream swing it with some movement.
I also let the thing dangle/hang at the end of the drift for quite some time now after an experience - one day I was eating a granola bar and just letting the EHC/soft hackle hang in the current while I ate. after at least a minute a fish grabbed the SH - just was hanging there not moving it.
I have ordered Hughes book and want to learn more about these for the upcoming season.


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Re: Soft hackles
Post 08 Dec 2021, 22:58 • #42 
Master Guide
Joined: 03/20/07
Posts: 849
Location: US-TX
Wow. Thanks for sharing. I’ve never understood soft hackle fishing before but now you guys have me sold. Thanks.


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Re: Soft hackles
Post 09 Dec 2021, 01:16 • #43 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/22/07
Posts: 873
Location: Out West
For a super effective soft hackle "out west", a simple hare's ear or Haretron hare's ear dubbed body with sparse guinea hackle is pure magic. Size 14 or 12 on a 1x or 2x long nymph or wet fly hook is pure magic. No tail.

The guinea hackle "breathes" better and has better contrast than partridge IMHO, at least in the places and conditions that I fish.

From early June (sometimes mid to late May) through September, this is a magic cutthroat and rainbow fly in my neck of the woods. Some big gnarly fish will pounce all over this soft hackle, especially earlier in the season.


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Re: Soft hackles
Post 29 Mar 2023, 12:45 • #44 
Sport
Joined: 12/25/22
Posts: 66
Location: Hartford, CT
Inspired by Dave Hughes book on Wet Flies, an attempt at a March Brown Flymph


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Re: Soft hackles
Post 29 Mar 2023, 16:43 • #45 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 05/19/14
Posts: 3929
Location: USA - Illinois
Attempt, nope. Very successful greenteal !


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Re: Soft hackles
Post 29 Mar 2023, 19:09 • #46 
Guide
Joined: 04/26/19
Posts: 179
Location: L'Étoile du Nord
I like this forum you guys fish. Most of the time when talking soft hackles and wet flies on other forums or on the rivers and after hours the bulk of replies are,- I don't fish them, I don't catch any fish on them. ever. Thats old school stuff that is not effective and rarely works. I look in disbelief.

I also like flymphs,I even swing those even on my two handed rods, lots of trout and salmon came to hand. I tie a variety of soft hackles some weighted with lead free wrap, different colors, shapes, some with tinsel and holographic tinsel, old classics as well. My choices vary but I have to look a the river, time of year, color of the water, what is hatching, cloudy or stained water from rain high water events.

Besides all that there are the different ways to fish them, wake and skate, dead drift and grease line (one of my favorites) dead drift and swing just under the surface, swinging like streamers, get them deep by mending and get them to lift quickly. I don't practice multi fly because one is enough for me but I could add in dapping, casting up river in riffles and let them swim back down to me. up river curve casts and let them sink and drift back stripping line, the curve cast upstream and across is work but its really deadly.

SO many good times, great fishing and big fish on flymphs, soft hackles and wets. Lift swinging for me works best when a hatch just starts and an occasional fish comes up, What are they midges? caddis? mayflies? Tie on a green and black, or small black, Partridge and gold, fish it just right and work the river down and back up an hour or so later when they are rising much better.

Very versatile flies that can be fished so many ways effectively and usually I have to be creative, and find the speed, or the depth or the rise and usually all the above, and when its right you will know.


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Re: Soft hackles
Post 29 Mar 2023, 20:30 • #47 
Master Guide
Joined: 07/26/21
Posts: 386
Location: North West Georgia
Im glad to see this thread come back up. I still mostly fish soft hackes as droppers behind dries or streamers in the pocket water of north Ga. However I have definitely come to appreciate them more and do fish them up and down stream dead drifted or on the mend to good effect.

I just tied my first fly since moving into a new house in October. It happens to be a sparrow. A pheasant cape is an incredible value. I have tied many dries, streamers and soft hackles using feathers from a pheasant hide. At the time I started this thread I had never seen one. Now I consider it to he one of the best fly tying purchases around.


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Re: Soft hackles
Post 30 Mar 2023, 12:43 • #48 
Sport
Joined: 12/25/22
Posts: 66
Location: Hartford, CT
Fished the March Brown Flymph as well as a Zug Bug yesterday afternoon on a small river near me. Both produced fish, Zug brought up the biggest, a 13" rainbow with a decent humped back that put up a good fight on my Fenwick 806! I greased the flymph during what seemed like a Hendrickson hatch, though there were also some Stoneflies hatching or laying eggs (they were dropping out of the sky so likely the latter!) and they smacked it repeatedly and aggressively. They also seemed to take it below surface (missed a few strikes) and when dangling in the current downstream. I had never fished either of those patterns until yesterday! Hughes book had me exploring different ways to fish flies than I had before - can't wait to tie more soft hackles!
Here's the Zug:
!


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Re: Soft hackles
Post 02 Apr 2023, 07:39 • #49 
New Member
Joined: 08/12/22
Posts: 8
I agree that North Country Flies is a great revenge book. Mine is well tabbed with sticky notes!


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Re: Soft hackles
Post 03 Apr 2023, 12:18 • #50 
Sport
Joined: 08/05/10
Posts: 88
Location: US-OH
Last year I swung the soft hackles and quill Winged wets on my 3 wt Spey and did well on heavily pressured trout rivers.
This year I am tying up some “bent hackle” flies as described in “What the Trout Said” by Datus Proper. I will fish them as dries, greased line dead drift style.


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