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Post 02 Dec 2021, 10:25 • #1 
Sport
Joined: 10/12/21
Posts: 60
Location: Dallas, TX
Morning all,

While sitting in traffic on my way to work and dreaming of streams on this gorgeous day...my mind drifted to a couple of new glass rods I'm anxiously awaiting and imagining how I might best use them. Which got me to thinking whether or not it is practical to throw a heavy and/or wind resistant bass fly on my 6 or 7 wt? If so, how heavy/big can I go, etc.? Then it dawned on me that I really have no idea how glass rod weights line up with various fly sizes & types. I get that glass type, taper, line, and length all play into this, but if you were to create some generalizations based on the specs below, what is your range of fly based on hook size, weight, type, or technique for the following glass rod weights & lengths? I'm less interested in what a rod "can do" and more interested in what it "can do well".

3wt, 6'6"-7'6"
4wt, 7'6"
5wt, 8'
6wt, 8'6"
7wt, 8'6"

School me!


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Post 02 Dec 2021, 17:04 • #2 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
Take a large selection of flies, a bag of reels/lines, and an armful of rods and try them at your local pond. Really.

After you learn the fly fishing basics, the rest is very individual with preferred casting style, experience, overall comfort level, and bullheadedness factoring into it. Some people insist on fishing a bushy #10 Wulff and a tungsten bead head dropper with a 3 weight line (and of course they cast it 75 feet into the wind. Uphill.) Others would not use anything lighter than a 6/7 weight line for the same rig. Large flies need a heavier line to carry them to a target. Tiny midges can be fished with almost any line weight and a suitable leader. When in doubt, a heavier fly line can always cast a smaller fly, but not the other way around. Beyond that, try stuff and see what works for you.

Note, I didn't mention fly rods. First figure out what fly you want to fish on what water. That determines the fly line/leader that you need. Then think about the fly rod. Starting with the rod size and working inside-out to get to fly size, while driving in traffic, will have you owning too many rods (and in a serious fender bender).


Tom


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Post 02 Dec 2021, 18:39 • #3 
Master Guide
Joined: 01/21/12
Posts: 462
Location: US-NY
Great advice above.

I could fish nothing lighter than a 6 for all trout and be fine (and I fish dries smaller than 14 80 percent of the time I fisb. For bass bugs, I'd want an 8.


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Post 02 Dec 2021, 23:38 • #4 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/09/05
Posts: 2524
Location: US-CO
This is just a chainsaw cut so don't measure my input with a micrometer please.

7'6" 4 wt. Dry flies up to nominally #10s. Smaller nymphs to #12.
8' 6 wt. All dries, most light warmwater sliders and poppers, heavier wets, buggers, etc. This rod will cover the bases for most fishing except the extremes.
8'6" 8 wt (choose carefully as many vintage glass rods of that length are too wobbly and loose) For bass, light salt, big fish, on top and underneath. If the rod is not casting well with the larger or heavier stuff, shorten the leader.

I don't have any rods that I fish below a 4 wt, and don't really feel the need to find one. Others have a different opinion and enjoy very light rods. But, if your rod needs an overweight line to cast well...the rod is merely mis-labeled by a line weight or two.

YMMV.


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Post 02 Dec 2021, 23:54 • #5 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/21/06
Posts: 3081
Location: Orygun
It probably should be noted that when you're dealing with the heavier weights (I can really speak to that since that's what I fish the most) that materials matter. I think you might have issues dealing with a size (let's just say 2 @ 4" long) long weighted rabbit strip streamer with your 6 or even 7wt, but that same fly tied with say, craft fur or bucktail or some other material that doesn't soak up water, you could probably cast it easily cast it with perhaps even you 5wt.

bumping up even further, there are some of my tiger musky flies that are in the 8-9" range that absolutely suck casting on even a 10wt. Put them on a 12? it's too easy. Whereas, I have some flies that are in the 12" neighborhood that cast super easily on my Bandit (10wt) or NFC 10wt because of the appropriate use of synthetics.

Bottom line, it depends. fly construction, angler skill, line, specific rod (e.g. not all 6wts are created equal).....oh, have fun with this journey of emptying your wallet of your hard earned cash. :lol :lol :lol


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Post 03 Dec 2021, 15:13 • #6 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 2087
Location: US-PA
My criteria defining "what a glass rod can do & do well" is the same as the excellent previous replies.

However, while I realize this is a glass rod question being asked on a glass rod forum, none of that changes regardless whether the rod is bamboo, glass or graphite.


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Post 03 Dec 2021, 15:54 • #7 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2498
Location: South of Joplin
All good stuff ^^^.
It's the line not the rod that carries the fly, I can cast several weights of line on the same rod, and do in different conditions. The heavier lines (8-9 for fresh water) are more versatile because they can carry heavy and big flies but also the very smallest flies, although to be honest I never used smaller than #24 with my 8/9wts. The Ultra Lights are the easiest to carry around but I'm not a good enough caster to use them, and the light to medium lines (5,6,7) are imo the best compromise between comfort and capability.
So, with the 5-7 lines in mind, I'm most comfortable with flies tied on hooks from #20-#2 and stuff less than ~5-6" long, and prefer rods 7 1/2'-8'. But, I have used small spoons and jigs up to 1/32oz on those too in deep swift holes that allow an oval cast. And the rods I used the first ~15-20 years were all 8 1/2' or 9' 8-9wts., with those I used longer finer leaders than I do with 7'6" 6wts., leader is the bridge between the line and the fly and must match both.
I guess that overall the rod is really just a handle for the rest of the system and the numbers printed on it are really unimportant, because our casting strokes, casting distance and wind conditions etc. are always different than that of whoever liked the rod with the line suggested.


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Post 04 Dec 2021, 05:55 • #8 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/19/12
Posts: 1007
Location: Beantown
All good replies, I'll only echo the fly materials point. I fish a lot of saltwater and can cast flies up to 6" easily with an 8 weight if they are constructed of craft fur or other materials that don't suck up water.


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Post 04 Dec 2021, 20:48 • #9 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/11/05
Posts: 1008
Location: US-NY
I’ve never subscribed to the light line weight trend that has been popular for the last several decades. For trout, I use 4, 5, and 6 weights. For largemouths, my preferred rod is a 9-weight. I have a 7-weight that I sometimes use for bluegill fishing when I know there will also be a chance at some bass. In this case I would be using it with bass bugs that are not too big. To get the most enjoyment out of heavier line weight rods, make sure they are not made of graphite. ;)


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Post 04 Dec 2021, 23:48 • #10 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/02/16
Posts: 515
Location: Georgia
Like others have said, the difference between “can do” and “can do well” is a matter of personal preference. I’ll reiterate that it depends on the flies you fish, but the differentiating factor for me is weighted vs. unweighted fly patterns for 6wt rods and up.

For example, I think my Steffen 6/7 fishes well with unweighted streamers up to 6-7” like the double deceiver, but if I need to fish a heavily weighted 3” fly like the sculpzilla, the Steffen 6/7 feels a bit light. If I know I’ll need to fish heavily weighted streamers or lines to get deeper in the water column, I’ll go to a heavier rod like the Steffen 7/8.


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Post 07 Dec 2021, 10:34 • #11 
Guide
Joined: 12/16/15
Posts: 135
Location: MSP
An aggressive line like an Outbound Short and a short stout leader will cast darn near anything. It's all about energy transfer. Assuming your line velocity is relatively constant, it takes mass to move mass - long tapers and light lines/ leaders will disperse the energy necessary to turn over a bulky or heavy fly. Offset it either by using a heavy fly line or a short heavy leader. You can demo this yourself by taking some egregious leader, say 3ft of 30lb butt material and knotting 10 feet of something like an 0X to it. Pick a fly with a bit of bulk but nothing severe (say, a #6 popper or unweighted #4 bugger) and go cast it if you can. Keep cutting the leader tip back further and further until the fly is easy to cast. You'll figure out the concept pretty quick.


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Post 08 Dec 2021, 14:53 • #12 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/24/11
Posts: 1144
Location: Belgium
Tom put it perfectly. It's first and foremost about the line and the fly. Most glass rods will do a good job at more than one task - up to you to figure what rod you like to use for any given purpose.

Here are some specific things I have noticed that might help you in your exploration:

Casting:

1. Power to cast heavier lines can come from a stiff butt (progressive) or mass in the mid and tip (parabolic).

2. A fine tip is preferable for touch and accuracy at short range.

3. A relatively stiff, heavy tip is preferable for turning over and controlling larger, heavier flies.

4. Short rods are lighter in hand and generally faster actioned - but there will be exceptions to this rule.

Fishing:

1. Fast action (soft tip - stiff butt) allows faster but gentle hook sets.

2. Butt strength correlates well with fish fighting ability.

4. Parabolic rods with a heavy tip (bamboo) can be surprisingly effective at tiring out trout even when the butt is somewhat soft. Fish has to move mass of heavy tip and I guess that's just as tiring as working against a heavy spring.

5. Long rods help keep line off the water.

6. Short rods are handier in tight brush.

Other factors:

1. How you choose to balance the rod affects both casting action and how the rod fishes. There are trade offs - up to you to decide what's good for you.

2. Personally, for casting, I prefer lighter than usual reels on parabolic rods - even though these rods tend to come across as tip heavy - so I tend to balance these quite far out in front of the grip.

3. I also tend to prefer relatively light reels on progressive rods but I am much more comfortable living with an extra ounce or ounce and a half if the reel is particularly pretty.

4. Heavier reels can sometimes help tune out some unwanted vibrations from the rod - the other side of the coin is they also tune out some sensitivity (minor effect but present nonetheless).

I apologize if this is too much detail or too subjective. You are going to have to figure out what works well for you. Quite possibly your tastes may even change, either gradually over time or randomly day to day. Lee Wulff was famous for using six foot rods to catch atlantic salmon that were also being caught on fifteen foot two handed rods. There is no right or wrong.


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Post 19 Dec 2021, 03:06 • #13 
New Member
Joined: 11/15/21
Posts: 6
I have limited experience specifically with fibreglass as I have owned my current rod for about 10 days ... but what I can say is if you are using a skagit line then you throw away the conventional game book as far as the size/weight of flies you can handle. I have using two 3 weight graphites rods for about 2 years now, in saltwater, an 8 ft and a 10 ft - with a home-made skagit line and I could easily throw a 1/0 closer with 3mm dumbbell 60 feet. Not far off what I do with my #7 Sage Method! I decided to see what a "real"skagit line would do so I have got the lightest OPST Commando Smooth (150 grains) and it doesnt appear to be overloading my 3 weight 7ft 6" S-glass rod and performs similarly. When you see how thick the belly section (compared to blank tip) then you won't be surprised!



As to whether you like skagit casting is another issue - but it all but removes the obstacle of fly size and weight for lighter rods and makes distance casting pretty easy too! So now my go-to rod is a 3 weight for my estuary fishing and is so much more fun than my 7 weight.


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Post 20 Dec 2021, 07:33 • #14 
Guide
Joined: 08/19/16
Posts: 314
Location: Brazil
In regards to the previous post, first of all, congratulations on using 3-weight rods in salt water. Could you please tell us more about the region where you fish and what species you are targeting?

Also, my hat’s off to OPST and the spey community in general for identifying their lines in grain weight. Upon reading that the OPST Commando Smooth line weighs 150 grains, my immediate reaction was that a 3-weight line weighs 100 grains over the first 30’, according to AFTMA/AFFTA tables, and 150 grains would be right between a 5- and a 6-weight line. However, the photo of the fly line compared to the thickness of the rod tip really aroused my curiosity. The next step was a visit OPST’s web site so as to find out what this line really is. According to the company web site, “If you are looking for a line that can do almost anything, experience the Commando Smooth. It's just like the wildly popular Commando Head. Only smoother.”

Very well, so exactly what is the 150 grain Commando Head? Again, according to the company web site, the length at which it weighs 150 grains is 12’. A little quick math leads to the conclusion that 30’ of line with the same diameter and density would weigh 375 grains. Once again consulting the AFTMA charts, we can see that 375 grains over the first 30’ would be a 12-weight. Therefore, what we’re talking about is essentially a 12’ section of 12-weight line for a shooting head, mated to a 0.026” running line with a smooth, factory made connection.

Please correct me if I’m mistaken, but it seems that the OP was referring to standard AFTMA/AFFTA rated lines and rods. And Mr. Swoffman, please take no offense because of what I’ve written. I’m sincerely interested in knowing more about your saltwater fishing with a 3-weight!


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Post 20 Dec 2021, 07:57 • #15 
Guide
Joined: 06/07/15
Posts: 162
Location: US-PA
There was a table in an old Orvis fly fishing guide that I keep going back to in my mind that matches fly size with line weight, a 5 wt line generally casts unweighted flies size 12-22, etc. So I tend to start at the fly sizes I will likely use and work backwards to choose an appropriate line weight. Then I consider the water I will be fishing to chose a rod length, action etc. For a tiny mountain stream my 7'3" softer glass rod is good. for a medium size spring creek with potential 40-50' casts a medium flexing 8.5 - 9' graphite, etc. I generally don't try to shoe horn a rod into a situation where it likely won't do what I need it to do.


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Post 20 Dec 2021, 15:25 • #16 
New Member
Joined: 11/15/21
Posts: 6
Hi Pampas Pete, No offense taken as I have learned over 40years of fly fishing that while there are industry standards there are people's preferences which can go off into strange tangents! Thought I'd just start with a gallery of my local examples taken on #3 outfits which include 10ft nymph rod as well as 8ft and 7ft 6"rods.





I will elaborate further but COVID work from home is calling. As you can see these are fish in the 1-2 opund range usually so this is not outside the abilities of the tackle.
Cheers!


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Post 22 Dec 2021, 12:28 • #17 
Sport
Joined: 10/12/21
Posts: 60
Location: Dallas, TX
Excellent and thoughtful feedback.


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