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Post 12 Sep 2021, 14:23 • #1 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/04/12
Posts: 705
Location: SE Pa


I haven't seen anything about this rod in the archives, but it's very sweet. I used a 5wt .... I was on a smaller creek. By the way it fished, I can't imagine using a 6wt on it. I'm wondering if it's simply a similar blank as was used on the Cortland Crest 5/6 but with a different color & trim. Has a wrapped chrome ferrule and plastic grip cap like many of the late 60s rods had.


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Post 12 Sep 2021, 16:18 • #2 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 08/25/08
Posts: 1526
Location: Delton, MI
There were a number of variations. Same blank? Who knows? Any of those 7 1/2 or 8 ft Cortland glass fly rods were very good performers. Can’t go wrong with any of them. And at a good deal less than $100, excellent values too.


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Post 12 Sep 2021, 16:54 • #3 
Guide
Joined: 04/02/16
Posts: 146
Location: Minor Hill Tennessee
They had a Crest , Pro Crest and a Crown . Then the FR-2000 . That looks like the crest and is the same number as my Crest .


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Post 12 Sep 2021, 17:42 • #4 
Master Guide
Joined: 01/04/18
Posts: 397
Location: Belair Maryland/Swanton Maryland
Springer1
I just posted awhile back and mentioned my 502 In a thread about lightvweight vintage glass rods
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=72279#p397395

I have both style 7.6 procrest the painted and the natural brown weave I can assure everyone they are not the same blank as the 502 .
The Pro-Crest rods are really full flex rods.
The 502 is definitely crisper but has great flex.

To translate
.. think of Pro-crest like a double digit Fenwick.
And the 502 a triple digit Fenwick.

I love my 502 For smaller stream work

I’ll see your bluegill and raise You...


502 with a near citation size (for Maryland) Red Breasted Sunnie..LOL

Some say St Croix made these But actually U.S. fiberglass (subsidiary of Gladding) Baked these rods..

Many of the best “Vintage Glass”
non Phillipson non Fenwick rods We’re rolled by US fiberglass

St Croix Vis-a-glas
St Croix Xxl’s , some imperial’s , others
Cortland Pro-crest’s
Cortland Fr 2000’s Opaque and translucent
Cortland 500series
South bend classic IV Translucent
Southbend Power flex and (golden zone) rods
Payne by Southbend rods
Horrocks and ibbotson ‘thermo weld” rods
Ll bean translucent Fr2000 style rods and the HI built thunderbird styled private label Ll bean rods
Just to name a few...
Here’s a Bonus Brookie On the 502

I’m thinking of rebuilding mine to something a little more custom..
Stoked you have the same rod. Not many out there I’ve seen.
Glad I’m not alone..


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Post 12 Sep 2021, 19:11 • #5 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/04/12
Posts: 705
Location: SE Pa
Ottobahn, yep, that looks exactly like the rod I have and your description of its action is spot-on. Wow, I'm really glad I posted, there are so many people here with valuable info here. I bought this rod for $40 on a whim, and am glad I did. Thanks everyone !


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Post 12 Sep 2021, 21:57 • #6 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4966
Location: US-MT
Ottobahn, not sure if I can understand why St Croix would have US Fiberglass build their blanks. Where did you get this informatin.


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Post 13 Sep 2021, 00:41 • #7 
Master Guide
Joined: 01/04/18
Posts: 397
Location: Belair Maryland/Swanton Maryland
Keith,
Put a St Croix Vis-a-glas , a South Bend Classic IV translucent and a Cortland Fr 2000 together and you’ll know they came from the same factory

Not sure why St Croix farmed some rods out to US glass but they definitely did

Maybe St Croix was so busy doing oem Zebco rods it was cheaper and logistically easier to farm some rod production out than have to stop production for Zebco

check out this perfect example of a US fiberglass built St Croix rod
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-ST-CRO ... 632-2357-0

First clue right off the bat is the Grip/Cap
That’s 100% straight out of the US Glass/ South bend parts bin

Check out the ferrule that looks like it’s out of the “H-I” Parts bin

The font for the rod#/length is like many US glass built Cortlands And late Gladding/South Bend Rods

Reel seat common to many US glass/Cortland some gladding/south bend rods

It even has the silver round sticker on the grip that many south bend rods came with..

Hope I shed a little light on the subject...

Springer1
The 502 loves the 6wt for throwing cone heads


Let that 502 fly....
Cheers guys


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Post 13 Sep 2021, 01:54 • #8 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
Many parts were purchased from other vendors that produced for everyone. I wouldn't put too much stock in grip shapes or reelseats as evidence for who built what rod. Pre-preg cloth for rod blank production was made by companies like Hexcel and 3M. Cal-Air, Allan, Featherlight and Varmac for reelseats. Gudebrod for thread. Swaged brass, chrome plated ferrules were a commodity. Featherlight's Sizematic ferrules were distinctive and common. The pad printing equipment of the day was rather primitive by the computer driven standards we now expect - there were not many font options. None of these things were unique to any given shop.

St. Croix had their own rod production line. Unless I see a corporate paper trail (invoices, orders, or shipping manifest) I seriously doubt St. Croix jobbed out their premium product line (Imperial) to a contract shop.


Tom


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Post 13 Sep 2021, 08:37 • #9 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4966
Location: US-MT
I'm with Tom, need something solid. Nothing in the "Fiberglass Fly Rod" book about US F making rods for St Croix.


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Post 12 Mar 2022, 05:01 • #10 
Master Guide
Joined: 01/04/18
Posts: 397
Location: Belair Maryland/Swanton Maryland
Circling back to this post after being out for a hot minute.
Springer sorry I was spreading my late night croix conspiracy on your Cortland 502 post.
I should post my conspiracy theories in rod tech or collecting .
I should have kept my comments to how rad the 502 rod is .
But rest assured your Cortland rod was made by US Fiberglass and is a superb rod.

Now for Keith and Tom
I’ll defer to you fine gentleman on your points
Tom great point on the pad printing tech back then .
And Keith I’m sure you’ve forgotten more about rods than I’ll ever learn to know .
I just can’t for the life of me why would they build such copycat rods ?

That being said there were some strange bedfellows going on the 70s
There was definitely some funny business going on at St croix prior to the 1978 sale to Mr Schulter
They were circling the bowl at the time and about to close … desperate times call for desperate measures??

If they weren’t having Us glass do some contract work why did the mid 70s croix rods that look so much like inexpensive gladding rods
It’s like why was st croix having a race to the bottom . Was everybody going cheap on glass as graphite was coming on the market?
As those later cheaper looking Croix rods are a far cry from some of their earlier nicer looking rods ? Weird.

Take the 30 year anniversary rod for example
Here’s a post from 2017 where whirlpool breaks it down a bit.
About the down market-ness of the “anniversary “ rod
I’m mean that is St croix’s 30th anniversary rod.
You figure they would have put out something a little more worthy on a commemorative rod ?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=60760

Dang those style rods just scream gladding/us glass to me..


And here’s a post I found when looking around about US glass ..
Tom back in 2009 you posted that US glass made “good” blanks for Cortland and St croix

Toms quote
Crusty, thanks for posting that quote from Trout. I wonder if these rods were ever cataloged. The last line, "the glass blanks he fitted with Payne hardware were the finest fiberglass he could find." I wonder where Payne obtained the blanks? In the mid 60s, Phillipson was already building on Scotchply (milky white glass). Perhaps the blanks were early Fisher? The other possibility is a special run of custom blanks from US Fiberglass, a Gladding subsidiary (they also made good blanks for Cortland and St. Croix). It would be very cool to find a Payne built glass rod with hardware and ferrules like a Jim Payne cane.

Tom[/quote]

So Tom were you mistaken at that time?
Where did you hear about the Us glass / croix connection?
Did you learn something new or different since then that changed your mind?


I was told about the croix / Us glass connection regarding spinning rods from one of the charter captains my dad was friends with back in the mid 80s (I lived on the docks waiting for the old guys to come and hear all the stories and secrets)

Was told it again about some of the imperials and the xxls without the feather stickers being Us glass blanks in the 90s by the owner of our local shop Outdoor Sportsman in Baltimore who was a st croix dealer for 25yrs ..

I guess it’s just stuck with me ,I was just an impressionable teenager back then .

In the end it doesn’t really matter except to the geekiest of rod geeks like us..
LoL

Im going to ask Tony the owner At Tochtermams Tackle in Baltimore next time I’m down that way and pick his brain on the matter. They’ve only been in business since 1916 , and are the largest St Croix dealer in Baltimore .
Tony’s dad sold Lefty Kreh his first Pflueger Medalst back in the day. So I’ll trust what Intel he may have.

Regardless if shenanigans did or did not occur it was pre sale in78
Mr Schulters hero status is firmly intact so no skin off his back.
Although I’m kinda bummed St croix never put out the new glass rods in fly action ..
And the fact St croix only has the mojo and the imperial fly rods series now .
The triumphs are gone the premiers are gone .
It’s like fly fishing is just not a serious deal for them these days.
I liked the triumphs a lot with their light moderate crisp action. For me at least

Does anyone else have any thoughts on the Croix/Us Glass connection ??

Kindest regards
Ottobahn the Croix Conspirator


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Post 13 Mar 2022, 17:25 • #11 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
ottobahn wrote:
So Tom were you mistaken at that time?

Probably. I don't remember why I felt St. Croix and US Fiberglass were connected. I haven't found any reason to believe so since. That doesn't mean there was, or wasn't, a commercial connection between the two. Good proof would be something like shipping invoices, sales records, or corporate contracts. The Gladding/US Fiberglass conglomerate failed 50 years ago, so the odds of finding such records is slim. Anyone with first hand knowledge of the transactions is likely not in the business anymore.

My point earlier goes to why so many rods of the day looked similar. The rod companies were not inventing the technology - they were buying it. Fenwick, St. Croix, US Fiberglass, TruTemper, Lamiglas, and the rest bought their materials from the same producers, such as Hexcel and 3M. When everyone buys the same Lego bricks, their products all look like they are made from Lego bricks. The same reason that so many modern rod companies sell colorful rod blanks made from "S2 glass" - AGY makes and markets Zentron prepreg.


Tom


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