It is currently 28 Mar 2024, 17:16


New Topic Add Reply
Author Message
Lines for a FF85-5
Post 28 Jul 2021, 14:32 • #1 
Master Guide
Joined: 07/26/21
Posts: 383
Location: North West Georgia
Hi Guys!
Ive been getting by for a long time with nothing above a 6wt, and I think I just fixed that! I wanted a rod that was well suited (not just adequate) for big trout steamers, bass bugs (hair/foam), pike flies, mousing, big foam hopper/ big stonefly dropper type rigs, and pretty much anything else a fish under about 10lbs would care to eat.

I picked up a FF85-5 and a Pflueger 1495 1/2 w/ spare spool on Ebay. There is little more than passing mention of the rod here on the forum. I selected it over a FF858 or 2 piece FF85 because of the portability since I often fish out of a day pack or backpack. This one will probably get a lot of use out of the canoe.. but its still a big deal to me to preserve packability.

the rod is a J serial number, marked for 8 weight, 4 1/8 oz. It does have the voyager markings. Ill add photos when it arrives!

I think Id like two lines to start with, maybe 3 eventually.

Id like to find one floating line that will push big hunks of foam and hair through the air while preserving the ability to mend in moving water and get good drifts. For this I would be thinking about something like a run of the mill wf7f or wf8f, or a DT 7 or 8. whichever the rod seems to like. A bass taper line would be cool for better distance possibly, but will have to come later on. Distance is not super paramount here. I would love to be able to push out 60ft+ casts, but most everything good Ive ever done with a fly rod happened within 40 anyways.

after that Id like to come up with a full sinking or sink tip line oriented towards streamer fishing. Whatever is most versatile. Ive played around with shooting heads some and would be interested in an integrated shooting head solution for this, but I could also be happy with a more traditional sinking line. I dont know as much about sinking lines.

of course, Im completely sidestepping the idea that this rod could be anything from a 5 to a 9, I really dont know.. and I dont have anything heavier than a 6 to try out as a base line. If anyone has any experience with the 5 piece FF85, Im all ears! Im hoping for a rod with the muscle to push big flies and land big fish but without being to stiff to have fun with foot long rainbows. Thanks!


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines for a FF85-5
Post 28 Jul 2021, 15:44 • #2 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2498
Location: South of Joplin
If the rod is the same as ones seen here in the past it should be #8, as those were marked. For that time period the rod line match was pretty straightforward, lines were mostly DTxF or WFxF and true to weight. I've never really found any line to be better than the Cortland 444 Peach or the equivalent AirCel for rods of that time frame. Those were both the premium lines when the rod was made and it was likely designed around them.
My Peach DT7F & DT8F handle most all the bass flies and streamers that I use as well as trout flies down to #20. I just build and adjust the leader to suit conditions. Peach also comes in WF, and I have one or two, but I find the running line doesn't mend well so those are close in lines for me. I've never had a problem up lining a vintage glass rod for short work, (or down lining for distance or presentation), so at <40' I might run my FF85 8wt.(2 piece) with a #9 bass taper. to get out with bigger bugs and less casting.
I don't like any sinking lines I've used in moving water, I think those work best in still water. But, I wade and fish small to medium rivers, so, from a boat on big water, I might change my mind, so far I've never done that. Sinking lines, for me, get tangled on "structure" more often, get "tangled" in crossing/twisting seams and they always require more retrieval between casts.
A line I haven't used, but, was kinda designed for these rods is the 406 lines sold by a forum member, true weight and a small diameter, again I'd get one in DT8F.


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines for a FF85-5
Post 28 Jul 2021, 18:39 • #3 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/23/18
Posts: 614
Location: Eastern Wa
I agree with Trev. 8 wt on my 85-5 and a 9wt works fine on my 85-2 for bigger flies. 1495 1/2 I think is a perfect choice! That would have been my recommended reel too.


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines for a FF85-5
Post 28 Jul 2021, 20:46 • #4 
Guide
Joined: 02/04/14
Posts: 181
Location: US-MA
The ff85-2 I have is stout, 7 and 8 wt lines don’t cast well until a good amount of line is out


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines for a FF85-5
Post 29 Jul 2021, 06:54 • #5 
Master Guide
Joined: 07/26/21
Posts: 383
Location: North West Georgia
Thanks Guys! It sounds like I need to be investigating an 8 weight double taper floater to start out and potentially a 8wt or 9wt bass taper line in the future if needed. my only complaint with the two 444 peach dt lines I have (5, 6) is that they seem a little stiff in the air somehow. Does a more supple option come to anyones mind? I wonder if this rod will be much slower than the the 2 piece 7-8-9 version of the FF85?

It sounds like it should shape up to be a good bass, big fly and streamer rod which is exactly what I wanted!


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines for a FF85-5
Post 29 Jul 2021, 17:53 • #6 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2498
Location: South of Joplin
It's been a long time since I used anything but 444, (and various economy lines that I bought just to see if they worked, so far I've not found any line that doesn't cast.) so, previous threads may have something on supple lines-
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=54113
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69190
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3977
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=58440


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines for a FF85-5
Post 10 Aug 2021, 12:35 • #7 
Master Guide
Joined: 07/26/21
Posts: 383
Location: North West Georgia
Trev - I read all of the posts you recommended and moved on with a peach dt8. Thanks!

I have the rod, reel and line in hand. Ill try to get some nice outdoor photos with good natural light tonight if the weather holds up. The rod seems to have been fished but not much. Im really itching for a bass, pickerel, or bowfin worthy of this rods butt section. The 1495 1/2 balances the rod well but I wouldnt want anything any lighter that the 1495 1/2. whatever Medalist is one step heavier wouldnt have hurt either, but this certainly works! it took the dt8 and about 100 yards of 20lb backing which seems about right. I might could have squeezed on another 30 yards or so but I always over pack my spools.. Assuming the 2 piece ff85 is a little lighter I would be very confident that the 1495 1/2 is the perfect reel.

Its also worth noting that this is my first medalist.. that wont last long. I cant remember what my silly reason was for not getting one before now.

as for the casting - the rod has a good bit more wiggle than my 756-4 but is not as soft as my ff70-4. I like the slower action of the 2 digit rods and this one seems to fit that ticket. I like it! with the peach dt8 I found casting out to about 40 - 50 feet easy but had trouble holding more line than that in the air and it didnt shoot well at all. I think this will be good for big foam dries or dry droppers, especially within 40 ft, especially in moving water. The spare spool that came with my 1495 1/2 happened to have an Aircell Supreme wf10f on it, so I decided to give it a shot just out of curiosity, after all Ive never cast a rod this heavy. To my surprise it actually cast fairly well. After getting the first 30 ft or so out, I was easily shooting line to well beyond practical fishing range.

However, the line was really overpowering the tip and I know the Aircell 10 is too much for the rod. After feeling that and being able to shoot line that way, I know I want a WF bass taper type line for bass, pickerel, bowfin, gar, and anything else I can find down here (I live in a warm water paradise but all of my dreams are about trout :/ ). Im looking for a line that will load with one or two false casts and then shoot a size 2 or larger streamer way out. I think the rod is capable if I pick the right line. based on the peach 8wt feeling good but certainly not anywhere close to overloading the rod, and the 10 wt aircell being too much, I surmise that I want a wf bass line if the 8-1/2 wt - true 9 wt range.

so many of the bass taper line ratings are designed around ultra fast graphite rods these days, I dont know that the suggested line weights mean anything on a rod like this one. An aftma 8wt is a 210gr head and 9wt is 240gr. 10wt is 280gr. I think Im looking for something around 225 - 250ish grains but even that doesnt tell the whole story :(

any ideas? the Scientific anglers frequency magnum and the Rio small mouth lines seem to have nearly identical tapers, both are available in "8wt" with a 225 grain weight for the first 30 ft. the frequency magnum is also offered in a "9wt" with 260 grain weight in the first 30 ft. the scientific anglers mastery bass bug in a wf7 is a true 9wt at 240 grains in the first 30 ft, and seems like an attractive option.

Im hoping Im not the only one who agonizes of this stuff. Thanks for reading! Pics should be inbound soon.


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines for a FF85-5
Post 11 Aug 2021, 03:22 • #8 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2498
Location: South of Joplin
I don't agonize about things like this at all, but over the past four decades I've acquired a bucketful of reels and two or three lines each in #4, 5, 6, 7, 8 & 9; it's pretty easy to simply go play with several lines on any rod and see what works.

The two piece FF85 #8 weighs ~4 1/8 oz. if you want to compare that. The 1495 1/2 is ~6.5 oz +/- empty and my 1498s are ~7.7oz. +/- (in between those, there are 1496 & 1496 1/2 out there but I've never seen one)
I like the 1498 better on 8'6" & 9' 8wt or 9wt. others have other opinions, naturally.

As I said above the DT works just fine for all my bass fishing. I build a short stiff leader and can use crappie jigs, if I want. But, the bass taper thing- what is it? it seems to be either a simple weight forward with a new name or an "aggressive taper" that effectively puts almost all the mass in a short space near the leader.
I look at things this way, that 210gn is for the first 30', part of which is tapered, so that if I carry/cast/pickup 60' of that line the effective mass on the rod is something more than 420gn, so if we concentrate ~400gn into <30-40' as either a shooting head or an aggressive taper (like a bass bug taper) and then go to low mass running line, the rod isn't about to be loaded beyond it's capacity. (I've cast a ~30' 400gn head on a 7wt and felt it was but slightly heavy.
I think for aggressiveness at 30-40' the 8wt might like something between ~280gn and ~360gn- which is just about what the WF10F you have is. If you felt that was too heavy, you might be well off just to use the DT8.
AFFTA spey #8 line (whole head+/-) weights = 360gn@40'; 530gn@55'; 570gn@65'- must be safe for rods built for AFFTA, eh? Confusion is caused, I think, by that 30' standard that no one ever actually fishes at, but if the rod is capable of casting a whole line, it must be capable of at least three times that 30' weight rating?
I bought economy lines and level lines to experiment with and many years ago cut and spliced a few to better understand what front heavy lines did. My method now is that if I want aggressive I just jump up a couple line weights, if I want far away I step down a couple line weights. Kinda keep "total line mass in air" somewhat the same.

^^^Just what works for me.


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines for a FF85-5
Post 25 Aug 2021, 07:28 • #9 
Master Guide
Joined: 07/26/21
Posts: 383
Location: North West Georgia
Trev - Thanks for the sage advice from someone who clearly knows much more about this than I do. I got really into tapers a while back when I came up with a rod that just wouldnt roll cast. That spawned a bit of an obsession for a few weeks. Somewhere in there I cut up an old 6wt dt line that came to me on a martin tuna can from ebay trying to make a spey casting type head for my 2wt SFG and my 3wt Douglas upstream. I did it thinking Id swing small streamers and wets in mid size streams around the north Ga mountains. The head works ok but I haven't gotten around to fishing it yet. Its fun stuff for sure. Id like to do more, I learned a lot about lines and casting from it.

I completely agree that the 30' weights are a loose guide at best and the concentration of weight along the line is extremely important. Luckily, for the really aggressive wf tapers you really can get the vast majority of the weight in the first 20 - 30' so perhaps the number actually has some value. My only reason for wanting a wf is that the peach doesn't seem to shoot very well in my hands and I can feel the rod is capable.

Based on casting with my peach dt8 and my hand loading scale the rod is good for about 290 grains before the amount of flex in the tip becomes undesirable. In other words, I suspect about 290 gr including line leader and fly is about what I would consider optimal as a maximum amount of weight out of the tip top. at 330 grains, Id consider the rod overloaded. With that in mind - I assume that a wf line slightly heavier than standard 8 weight with a good shooting profile would be ideal. that should leave enough weight for a healthy size Clouser or a decent size cone head.

Your guess and my measurements are really close as to the ideal weight. I wonder if the rod could carry more weight if it was in a head closer to the line instead of being 40'+ of dt line. What are your thoughts? The way I see it, I have an option at 225 gr (magnum/smallmouth 8 ), an option at 240 gr (mastery bass 7) and an option at 260 gr (magnum 9). I doubt I will be able to tell much difference between the tapers, Im more concerned with weight. Based on the "cast by feel test" do you think I should be looking for something on the heavy end of the scale? even heavier than what is listed? I suppose if I guess wrong and buy something too heavy its an excuse to find a ff858 or a 2 piece ff85?

here are some shots of the outfit! There are some small scuffs on the second rod section from the bottom but otherwise the rod looks nearly new. Its great that you can still buy nearly new Fenwick glass rods for really reasonable prices.








Edit -
First fish on the rod! I picked up a sinking "8wt" rio fathom line for swinging streamers for trout and fishing deeper to warm water fish in still water. This is my first sinking line and it casts.. sorta like people say sinking lines do. But its very serviceable and I think its a good match to the rod. There is a scientific anglers "8wt" bass bug in the mail that Ill report back on once Ive cast it. The sinking line and a "half and half" tied on a size 1 mustad 34007 brought in my first fish on the rod - a good size bowfin. I dont keep a scale with my when I fish because I dont typically care but I would have been curious what this one weighed, it felt like reeling in a cinder block. the rod bent all the way to the cork but I had plenty of backbone to fight the fish back out of the weed bed that was conveniently located boat side. It was my first bowfin on a fly rod and also, likely, the biggest fish Ive caught on a fly rod. I wouldnt have wanted to subject my ff756 to that.. Having a heavy duty rod for heavy duty fish is fun, despite my user name! I would love to try this out for inshore salt water, which Ive never done. I also have good feelings about tailwater trout on streamers, mice, or jumbo dries. I have a feeling this rod is gonna see a lot of great times.




edit 2 -
The scientific anglers bass bug 8 wt line is just ok. It is certainly not overloading the rod, and I wouldn't hesitate to try another "heavy" "8wt" line on the rod but Im not sure I care for having all of the weight out at the very end of the line like that. I plan to hang onto the line, and for really air resistant flies or windy days its probably a great line. for more general purpose still water fishing Ill probably actually stick to the aircel 10wt wf line, it casts very well on this rod, feels great and has produced the best distance. it also has a fairly fine tip and front taper that I think is probably good for not spooking fish. In moving water Ill probably end up using the Peach dt 8wt to preserve the ability to mend and manage line.

With that, Ill wrap this up! thanks to Trev and everyone else who helped out! If I pick up a FF858 or 2 Piece FF85 Ill be sure to post a comparison. This rod is certainly very versatile for line weight, fights big (for me) fish with authority, casts to 70 ft, shoots line great with the right line, and has a very soft tip that I think will be good for trout or regular size bass in the 12-14" range. on Lines - Id say anything goes 8-10wt, but I would be reluctant to underline this one. if I ever come into a peach dt7 Im sure Ill try it.


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines for a FF85-5
Post 23 Dec 2021, 09:35 • #10 
Master Guide
Joined: 07/21/21
Posts: 447
Location: Florida
Brooke Boy, great review I appreciate it! Hmmm … I’m looking at finding an FF85 or similar Fenwick for a Spring trip up to Lake Arrowhead GA in March …. Thinking an Orvis Bank Shot Floating might be the ticket paired with a Teeny 5ft Phantom Tip to get lower in the water column …. Definitely gonna use this as a Stillwater rod for my bass big lake fishing from a boat.


Top
  
Quote
Re: Lines for a FF85-5
Post 04 Jan 2022, 21:18 • #11 
Master Guide
Joined: 07/26/21
Posts: 383
Location: North West Georgia
Great news! I like mine a bunch. Floating lines I have tried - 444 peach dt8, airflo 10wf, scientific anglers bass bug 8wt. Of those the 444 dt8 cast well predictably and might be my choice if I needed a floating line for trout with this rod. I find I get easier distance with the airflo wf 10 and it is what I have used in warm water with this rod. The scientific anglers bass line 8wt just didnt feel great on this rod to me. Im not sure how the taper works on the bank shot.

Mine also casts a 8wt rio fathoms 6ips full sink well.

Mine doesnt seem to be afraid of weight.

The 1495.5 seems to be about perfect weight wise. Id start with a 444 dt in either 8 or 9, they dont cost much and then you have a line thats pretty sure to get it done if you can get close enough.

I like mine, it has brought in several really big fish for me. Im sure you will be pleased with yours.

Edit: I took a 444 peach DT7F spooled on a 1495.5 out and cast it in the yard today. I didnt expect much as I normally like the slower action of a heavier line on a given rod. I was pretty stunned, tight easy loops to 45ft+ and it felt great. If you want an 85-5 for bass, the dt7 might be inferior to the heavier lines this rod will cast. However, for big trout with big flies in moving water (think big hoppers /big droppers in big water) the 85-5 paired with a dt7 would be really grand.


Top
  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

New Topic Add Reply



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: DaveF and 18 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group