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Hauling
Post 21 Jun 2020, 16:00 • #1 
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How often do you use the double haul when you are trout fishing?


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Re: Hauling
Post 21 Jun 2020, 16:36 • #2 
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anytime I'm not roll-casting, and sometimes when

but it isn't so much using it as allowing nature - it should be something intuitive to modulate feel, power, and timing through your line hand


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Re: Hauling
Post 21 Jun 2020, 17:55 • #3 
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Location: Bozeman, MT
Almost every cast is with a single or double haul...I'd say at least 40 % each and 20% with the line just snubed against the cork and my left hand directing "body & line english" to get the fly where I hope it will land.


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Re: Hauling
Post 21 Jun 2020, 18:49 • #4 
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Most of the time if I have any amount of line out. Is often just a tug with the line hand.


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Re: Hauling
Post 21 Jun 2020, 18:55 • #5 
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What they said...


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Re: Hauling
Post 21 Jun 2020, 18:56 • #6 
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Automatically on almost every cast, but just as described above by others, a tug, not an aggressive haul. As casts get to 40 feet or more, I automatically shoot a little line on the back cast, which ends with a short haul into the forecast. To use an aggressive double haul for an extra long cast, I have to think about it, so I rarely do it since I don't want to think about casting when fishing.


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Re: Hauling
Post 21 Jun 2020, 19:30 • #7 
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Pretty much all the time unless I'm making an effort not to.


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Re: Hauling
Post 22 Jun 2020, 03:54 • #8 
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All the time. Ritz calls it casting with two hands. It brings an additional element of control to the cast. If practicing it is however useful to cast without it just to be sure that your mechanics (tracking, stroke length, creep, power application, drift) are all fine and under control. Hauling can become a crutch for a sloppy rod hand. That's fine when it is intentional, not so good otherwise.


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Re: Hauling
Post 22 Jun 2020, 07:27 • #9 
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If you're correctly holding line in line hand, you're already hauling, because the fly rod moves both away and toward that hand.
This is all about using line hand to feel the rod load and unload through the line.
What's called double haul is also moving the line hand both away and toward the rod at the correct moment to modulate that power and increase line speed with little effort.
It's not even close to a crutch unless you make it a part-time trick. It's also necessary with parabolic rod tapers.
The list of crutches and bad habits using the rod hand is infinitely longer.

Squeezing the line in rod hand and "casting" is the stupid non-casting metronome thing in a River Runs Through It.
Line hand feel is probably why southpaw casters are inherently natural and non-aggressive at fly casting and haul, because they don't really have a dominant hand.


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Re: Hauling
Post 22 Jun 2020, 07:57 • #10 
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Yes?
Honest answer, I don't usually think about what I'm doing to the line or rod when fishing; my casting would no doubt be better if I did, but I don't go casting- I go fishing.
I know that back in the '70s I consciously hauled on every roll cast, because that was what Jean taught, but eventually I just let the flies take themselves to where I'm looking.
I suspect though that unless you cast with one hand in your pocket that you use some haul just by holding the line while moving the rod hand away from and nearer to the line hand, the line hand would need to rise with and follow the rod hand to avoid any pull.


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Re: Hauling
Post 22 Jun 2020, 13:39 • #11 
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Quote:
Line hand feel is probably why southpaw casters are inherently natural and non-aggressive at fly casting and haul, because they don't really have a dominant hand.


Funny you say that. I am left handed and although I can also cast (not as well) with my right I really have a problem hauling effectively with my left. It's been easier to learn to cast with my right than to learn to haul with my left.

Apart from physiological considerations it points to how challenging it is to haul effectively and how nuanced the haul can be especially when using tricky curved casts to present to trout. Interestingly what the line hand does seems more instinctive than what the rod hand does. Wondering if the rest of you have a similar experience?


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Re: Hauling
Post 22 Jun 2020, 15:32 • #12 
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I cast mostly RH but switch a lot to lefty. Yes, learning to haul with my right hand was interesting and still doesn't come without a bit of thinking on my part. Ten years or so ago, the pain in my right arm got so bad I fished LH only for a couple of weeks and got pretty good at it.

RH and LH is totally different casting. LH is generally tighter loops and better distance, especially once I think about my haul.. RH is slower (maybe my arm is worn out?) but way more accurate and takes almost no real thinking to make it all work.


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Re: Hauling
Post 23 Jun 2020, 09:19 • #13 
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Trev, the not-thinking part is exactly what fits here. We're thinking about this after the fact and trying to describe it.


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Re: Hauling
Post 23 Jun 2020, 10:51 • #14 
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Lefty Kreh did a show near here back in the '90s and after his impressive stunts, visited with us and answered questions, I asked about the line going round the end of the rod when I cast overhead, he had me do a demo cast and then told me not to move my left hand so far on the haul; several points of light for me- I didn't realize I was even doing that, I didn't have that result when rollcasting because of different rod hand movement, and while following his advice did stop the line wrap it also changed other aspects of my cast, I'm not whether I got better or worse at casting, but I'm fairly certain all good casters use some haul on every cast unconsciously. Only the igloo painters don't.


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Re: Hauling
Post 23 Jun 2020, 12:09 • #15 
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Trev wrote:
Lefty Kreh did a show near here back in the '90s and after his impressive stunts, visited with us and answered questions, I asked about the line going round the end of the rod when I cast overhead, he had me do a demo cast and then told me not to move my left hand so far on the haul; several points of light for me- I didn't realize I was even doing that, I didn't have that result when rollcasting because of different rod hand movement, and while following his advice did stop the line wrap it also changed other aspects of my cast, I'm not whether I got better or worse at casting, but I'm fairly certain all good casters use some haul on every cast unconsciously. Only the igloo painters don't.


On a U Tube video Lefty also said that hauling would not make a bad cast good, but it would make a good cast better.

On the Lefty videos I’ve seen, he dos not teach hauling although he does get to that eventually. He shows one woman that she can shoot an entire fly line without hauling.

This was the reason behind my question. I can haul, both single and double. However, I can make a very nice 40 to 50 foot cast with the line held by on hand against the cork. Agreed that most teaching videos show the instructor double hauling, but if I’m satisfied with a one hand, no haul cast isn’t that good enough for most fishing situations?


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Re: Hauling
Post 23 Jun 2020, 12:34 • #16 
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Redsadiesue wrote:
if I’m satisfied with a one hand, no haul cast isn’t that good enough for most fishing situations?

certainly, you have no one to please but yourself, if it makes you happy you will be happy

By the same token, if you happy with your cast, why ask others? Are you wanting to convert us or are you wanting us to pressure you to admitting you need to haul?

I want my line in my other hand for several reasons beyond casting, it has been said that casting is over rated and when it comes to the where and how I fish it certainly is.


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Re: Hauling
Post 23 Jun 2020, 13:32 • #17 
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My OP had no sinister motive. I just wanted to know if members found a need for fishing the haul. It certainly is part of a casting arsenal, but I didn’t know how often, if ever, members used it...just wanting to improve my fishing skills. The Forum members are are great resources.


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Re: Hauling
Post 24 Jun 2020, 13:54 • #18 
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For much of my fishing (primarily tiger Muskies) where I'm fishing large flies to large fish with heavy rods (10wt) with primarily shooting heads, if I didn't know how to double haul, I'd be out of the game. The nice thing is that this has helped my trout fishing even when fishing tiny dries. Hauling does make things easier.

Someone mentioned above (Ron I think?) that if you're holding your line properly with your line hand when casting, you naturally throw a haul in there...not so much if you're pinching the line with your 'grip' hand.

Cheers!


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Re: Hauling
Post 24 Jun 2020, 22:30 • #19 
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Redsadiesue wrote:
I can make a very nice 40 to 50 foot cast with the line held by on hand against the cork.

I've never seen such a cast, it intrigues me, do you let a few feet slip past your grip on the back cast to extend the carry or do you start with 30'-40' on the water or ??
I'm assuming you have the line under one finger and not held by the hand, but any shooting would seem to necessitate the line staying behind that finger for control? This line is shot from a basket or from the water?
I hate video but can you link one that shows a one hand shooting cast?


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Re: Hauling
Post 25 Jun 2020, 03:25 • #20 
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If you just look at the physics of casting - for a given target line speed you will actually load (bend) the rod less by hauling. Hauling provides more of what I would call dynamic range in the energy you can transfer to the line. It also allows to superpose the influence of rod hand and hand line - and this can achieve effects that are not possible with rod hand alone. It is an incredibly useful tool.

That said one could choose not to haul at all and still get by in many situations. I am afraid however that it would be quite limiting. If you have two able arms and the will to learn the skill it makes a great deal of sense to do so. I cannot think of a situation where there is a practical advantage to be gained by not hauling. If anything it can reduce the effort (or probably more accurately, peak load) on the parts of the body needed to achieve any given cast.


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Re: Hauling
Post 25 Jun 2020, 16:57 • #21 
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giogio wrote:
If you just look at the physics of casting - for a given target line speed you will actually load (bend) the rod less by hauling. Hauling provides more of what I would call dynamic range in the energy you can transfer to the line. It also allows to superpose the influence of rod hand and hand line - and this can achieve effects that are not possible with rod hand alone. It is an incredibly useful tool.

That said one could choose not to haul at all and still get by in many situations. I am afraid however that it would be quite limiting. If you have two able arms and the will to learn the skill it makes a great deal of sense to do so. I cannot think of a situation where there is a practical advantage to be gained by not hauling. If anything it can reduce the effort (or probably more accurately, peak load) on the parts of the body needed to achieve any given cast.


Would you double haul if you were fishing a small mountain stream with a lot of brush behind your. I would do a roll cast.


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Re: Hauling
Post 25 Jun 2020, 17:05 • #22 
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The roll cast is always the last resort for me in tight situations. I tend to prefer Belgian casts and finding gaps I can fire narrow loops into for the back cast - but sometimes there is no space.

Hauling is another issue - you can haul and even double haul when roll casting by hauling into the D loop formation and again on the forward delivery.


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Re: Hauling
Post 25 Jun 2020, 18:34 • #23 
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Redsadiesue wrote:
Would you double haul if you were fishing a small mountain stream with a lot of brush behind your. I would do a roll cast.

Why? please explain
Rollcast is my main platform/go to cast, but on a small mountain stream I would be inclined not to use it, a steeple cast or Galway cast would be less likely to put the fish down., I think.


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