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Tippet grief!
Post 01 Jan 2020, 14:35 • #1 
Guide
Joined: 12/20/19
Posts: 101
Location: Christchurch, NZ
Lost a couple stonkin great trout the other day. After multiple knot and tug tests l found the nylon had degraded.
Losing fish has never really bothered me but to rotten nylon l guess l can only blame myself.
So......l guess I’ll resort to replacing the nylon each season.
I know nylon is stronger than in the past but with all the high tech and all l wish it lasted a bit longer.
What does everyone else do?
Ugh!


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Re: Tippet grief!
Post 01 Jan 2020, 14:48 • #2 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/06/15
Posts: 1249
Location: Central Oregon
I have heard of that issue, but have not seen it in my spools. I've even seen tests of climbing ropes testing lower after years in storage My tippet is stored in the proverbial cool dry place away from light so that might help.

Also, I'm told that fluoro tippet is bad for the environment because it takes eons to break down. Can we assume it degrades slower than mono tippet on the spool as well?


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Re: Tippet grief!
Post 01 Jan 2020, 14:52 • #3 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19109
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
What does everyone else do?
Stick to Umpqua and Seaguar for tippet.
One (business) trip to Alaska, with only time to stop at one fly shop on the way to the airport, picked up Rio HS 3x tippet.
Broke off 3 30" rainbows at knots, and never used that tippet again.


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Re: Tippet grief!
Post 01 Jan 2020, 15:08 • #4 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2513
Location: South of Joplin
I have nylon that is several years old and still fine and I have had premium brand tippet that was crap from the day I bought it. What I do is try to break it before using it and if it feels good try to break it again after tying it on and then try to break the fly off before casting it. If I have one failure, I reckon it is me tying a bad knot and try again but if repeated a few times I discard that spool of junk whether new or old. Do this testing all the time and there will be some well known brands you steer clear of. I really don't count on the label information as to diameter or strength, I measure before each use and use according to diameter not test-rating. I find that in general if I stay with the same brand/material throughout the leader taper that I will get better results than if I mix brands or materials. Maxima Chameleon suits me down to 5x- 0.006" and if going smaller several of the tippet specific brands suffice. At those smaller sizes I'm very careful to test all knots.
Umpqua has been good in my experience.


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Re: Tippet grief!
Post 01 Jan 2020, 15:25 • #5 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 2099
Location: US-PA
I've used Orvis Super Strong Mono for the last 3000 years, Seaguar Fluoro for the last 1000 years and Orvis Mirage when I can't get Seaguar for the last 500 years and have no issues or complaints.

I have no need to buy or try anything else at this point.


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Re: Tippet grief!
Post 01 Jan 2020, 15:49 • #6 
Guide
Joined: 12/20/19
Posts: 101
Location: Christchurch, NZ
Thanks for the replies folks
It’s weird. I’ve got old chameleon l use for butt section with no issues ever.

Trev I usually measure diameter too however some tippet now comes in sealed packages and like you l never trust the stated dia. until l measure it myself.

I use Seaguar Fluoro too but again every time l use it I’m reminded of that never degrading thing.

I have some tapered leaders I’ve had on lines for years . I tie a small perfection loop on the end so l can loop a tippet section on. Oddly I’ve never had issues with the tapered leader tips rotting.
Just bought a couple new spools of the Trouthunter evo tippet so I’m hoping!


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Re: Tippet grief!
Post 01 Jan 2020, 16:14 • #7 
Master Guide
Joined: 01/25/18
Posts: 553
Location: Brazoria County, TX
The weird thing about nylon is that it’s documented that a number of exposures to various agents will degrade it, but you can’t really tell that’s it has been degraded and weakened by looking at it. I had some 20 pound umpqua hard nylon for mid section or butt that I could easily break with a tug of my unprotected hands. Who knows what got to it, it wasn’t all that old. But I’ve had ancient spools of trilene to be seemingly perfectly strong. Could be UV light or mosquito spray or some other oil or solvent or gas or who knows that gets it and all trace of the material or exposure is gone.

I just say the heck with it and usually go with the devil I know, fluorocarbon, but fluorocarbon has issues, too. Fluorocarbon at least is impervious to degradation by ordinary exposures to common agents or substances. I’ve never had a spool of fluorocarbon go bad from some invisible exposure to something like I have had with nylon.


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Re: Tippet grief!
Post 01 Jan 2020, 16:22 • #8 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2513
Location: South of Joplin
I don't think I've never had any nylon leader material go bad in storage except premium tippet material. I think it is linked to the limpness, with super limp materials being short life materials.
Stalkermike, I have that problem trying to use fluorocarbon myself, it works fine, but I can't feel good about the chances of a break off that has a half life of eternity. I shouldn't let it bother me because no one else does or it would be banned. still ...


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Re: Tippet grief!
Post 01 Jan 2020, 17:00 • #9 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/09/05
Posts: 2525
Location: US-CO
For tippet, I have moved to P-Line Flouroclear, which I buy in 300 yard spools for about $8 each. I buy it in 2 lb, 4 lb, and 6 lb...and after breaking off a very nice trout on the 4 lb...I bought a spool of 8 lb. It is apparently a nylon line with a flourocarbon coating, which hopefully brings the best of both worlds. And at 300 yards for half the price of a 30 yard spool of brand-name tippet, I can afford to replace them all for about $30. (Hint: If you plan to do this, save your old tippet spools to wind it on yourself, so you don't have to haul around a 300 yard spool of monofilament.)

I do like Umpqua leaders and tippet, however, and used to buy them under the Cabelas brand until they stopped selling them there. I will probably stick with them for tapered leaders, but I might add a tippet ring to keep from nibbling away my Umpqua leader over time by tying on new tippet.


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Re: Tippet grief!
Post 01 Jan 2020, 17:45 • #10 
Guide
Joined: 12/20/19
Posts: 101
Location: Christchurch, NZ
Karstopo...I’ve only had one spool of bad fluoro and that was years ago when it first came out. Right out of the store a small tug would break it.

Trev. I also think about all the other synthetic junk we lose such as dubbings, assorted body materials and the like. Foams. The list seems never ending.

Paveglass. I’ve been using Varivas tapered leaders with great success but l tie my own for my 2 weights as l start out with a .016” butt section.

I think I’ll just go with the Seaguar 200 yd. spool red label

Michael


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Re: Tippet grief!
Post 01 Jan 2020, 17:55 • #11 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4971
Location: US-MT
In 2018 I went all year and can't recall popping a fish off. My "recall" is probably not correct.

But in 2019 I popped several nice fish off----GRRRR---- due to using old, too light of tippet. Where I fish, there this no reason to use 4x or 5x. Ever.

In 2020 I shall not be caught on the water with light tippets.

To the question, yes, I have had spools --usually old-- of line that just wont hold any longer.


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Re: Tippet grief!
Post 01 Jan 2020, 17:57 • #12 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 10/09/09
Posts: 2798
Location: US-NM
I have had good luck with Trout Hunter and just bought some of the new Evo and hope it’s good as the old stuff.........Aurelio


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Re: Tippet grief!
Post 01 Jan 2020, 18:20 • #13 
Guide
Joined: 04/04/13
Posts: 197
Location: Central Maryland
Stalkermike wrote:
Trev. I also think about all the other synthetic junk we lose such as dubbings, assorted body materials and the like. Foams. The list seems never ending.


Hooks, for that matter. There was article in one of the British fly fishing magazines a year or two back about how many tons of sharpened steel get introduced into trees world wide each year through fishing (and the math he did to arrive at those number seemed reasonable.) And the there's the lead wrapped around many of those hooks. It's not going keep me from fishing, but I do now try to minimize what I leave behind, where possible.


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Re: Tippet grief!
Post 01 Jan 2020, 18:22 • #14 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 03/16/08
Posts: 3543
Location: Upstate-NY
i knot my own leaders and use Maxima Cameleon for heavier than 0x, and Umpqua flouro for 0x and lighter.

I havent bought leader material in at least 5years, and maybe more like 8.

I keep the spools stored in my game bag, never exposed to light. I think that helps.


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Re: Tippet grief!
Post 01 Jan 2020, 20:17 • #15 
Guide
Joined: 12/20/19
Posts: 101
Location: Christchurch, NZ
Redietz I am the owner of a lot of that steel! :)

Yeah....l think it’ll be Seaguar fluoro for me in the future.


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Re: Tippet grief!
Post 01 Jan 2020, 20:45 • #16 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/27/16
Posts: 2334
Location: US-IL
Fluro is great stuff but you should take care when tightening that knot,I think in haste or just being complacent we tighten that knot dry or force it and the wraps get out of order etc.I make my own leaders and carry spools in my bag to cobble one together on the bank or in the boat.Cant remember the last time i had line break at the knot.I try to tie my basic knots not even looking at them and feeling it all slide into place ,you can feel when the knot is hanging up more than see it.I still mostly bite the tags off when tying a fly or lure on.Drives my wife nuts.Yeah and i hate people who leave line all over the place.Cant do much if its in a tree tho.


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Re: Tippet grief!
Post 01 Jan 2020, 21:26 • #17 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2513
Location: South of Joplin
Steel oxidizes, furs and wool rot. Most plastics break down with exposure, fluorocarbon is just there forever? You guys using it as tippet probably won't scatter out a mile of in your life time, but guys spooling hundreds of yards on casting reels and cutting/breaking off every time they tangle on the structure do pose a problem for the future I think. I suppose that as long as it sinks, it won't attract attention and may not kill wildlife.


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Re: Tippet grief!
Post 03 Jan 2020, 15:18 • #18 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1786
Location: urban Colorado
I've had 6x go bad, but to be fair it was over a decade old..

These days buy 100m spools of Maxima green 8lb for bass/carp tippet, Stroft for all trout sizes, and respool onto old Orvis tippet spools.
I have some 6x and 7x fluoro which gets used maybe once every few years, when my friends drag me out to the technical tailwaters and I can't make 5x work.

mono in sunlight (UV) will degrade to less than half its strength in a couple hundred hours of exposure. For lost pieces of line outside, that is less than a year in most fishing environments. Mono will also lose some strength just through water absorption. This makes it easy for birds etc trapped in coils of loose line to break free. Fluoro basically doesn't degrade. So I try to avoid it mostly.
These numbers are mentioned frequently but I can't find a definitive citation.


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Re: Tippet grief!
Post 03 Jan 2020, 15:52 • #19 
Emeritus
Joined: 06/10/05
Posts: 612
Location: US-MI
This is what I do.
In a previous life I was a fly fishing guide and fished over 100 days per year.
I bought bulk spools of tippet at that time.
I have found that Umpqua lasts forever. I still have bulk spools of Umpqua that are over 15 years old and I still fill my small spools from them.
BTW, Umpqua tippet material is the same as Sunline Siglon V in case anyone ever wants to buy it in bulk.

For Saltwater fishing and for butt sections on freshwater leaders I use Ande tournament line.


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Re: Tippet grief!
Post 03 Jan 2020, 17:08 • #20 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8933
Location: US-ME
Go ribs1. My leader and tippet material is reasonably well stored, and I don't fuss about how old it is. If I have a good fish "break off," a poorly tied knot is usually to blame. Time was I could tie an 18 on to 6X at night without a flashlight, but now I have a hard job to do that in good light between poor feel in my fingertips and changes in my eyesight. I'm careful with knots, though, and still don't tie a sloppy one often. I think the other cause is wear on the leader and tippet from the very popular but very imbalanced rigs that produce a lot of herky-jerky casting and, with weighted rigs, abrasion on the tippet. Too soft and too long leaders yield "wind" knots, the face-saving name for casting knots. If the material ties and survives a pull-hard test, it is breaking for another reason than deterioration. Someplace--I see it every few years--I have a spools of Gladding 5X and 6X--from the late 1970s. They passed that test on the few times I've used them since then, and so do various spools 6x and up in Cortland and a few other brands accumulated over the last 20 years. So anyhow, I'm not fussy about the age of the material, but I am very careful to tie balanced leaders that don't snap and whip the fly or the material around. They fish better anyway.


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Re: Tippet grief!
Post 04 Jan 2020, 04:56 • #21 
Guide
Joined: 02/05/15
Posts: 262
Location: Hawkes Bay, New Zealand
Have been using Trouthunter nylon the last couple of years. Use 3X, rarely 4X for dry flies. Fish enough to go through two or three 50m spools a season. So don't have to worry too much about "old" tippet material. If a fish breaks off it is usually because of a wind knot, nick in the tippet or angler error unless the fish finds some sharp rocks or woody debris. It pays to check the leader for nicks and unwanted knots several times while out on the water. Don't want to lose a possible double digit fish to something you can prevent, enough things out of our control often take things out of our hands.


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Re: Tippet grief!
Post 04 Jan 2020, 08:44 • #22 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19109
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
BlackHackle, 3x for dries gives most of us visions of a bug big enough to pick up and carry off the trout. For the most part, we use the biggest tippet size that will fit our hook eyes.


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Re: Tippet grief!
Post 04 Jan 2020, 09:13 • #23 
Sport
Joined: 12/04/11
Posts: 72
Location: US-MI
I learned my lesson the hard way some 30 years ago when a steelhead trip was ruined when I was talked into spooling up a spinning reel with 10 pound fluorescent blue colored Trilene XL. The large bulk spool had been sitting where the sun hit it on one side. The line broke every 20 inches or so where the sun had hit it. On the other hand, I had some very hard camo colored mono that was sold by Weber that I purchased around 1961 and has been in a drawer most of its life. As of 10 years ago, it was still tough as nails and I was still using it as a trace at the end of braided nylon on vintage bait casting outfits. So I agree with the statement above that soft mono degrades faster than hard. I appreciate being educated in this post on the environmental problems of Fluorocarbon. I have not used it but you have made sure that I never will. When I think of the large quantities left behind by some careless modern baitcasters, it is very troubling.


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Re: Tippet grief!
Post 04 Jan 2020, 20:48 • #24 
Guide
Joined: 12/20/19
Posts: 101
Location: Christchurch, NZ
The day after l lost those trout l sat down with those spools of tippet and spools of new tippet.
Tied the 4x to 3x several times using different knots and lubing with a bit o spit or Knot Sense . Pulled the line up slowly too.
Guess what? Same result every time. 4x went ping! The stuff’s rotten.
The new tippet....no problem.
From now on nylon goes out at end of each season or maybe just go to Seaguar.

BlackHackle. Quite often I’ve found 6x will make the difference in getting trout or not.


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Re: Tippet grief!
Post 04 Jan 2020, 21:13 • #25 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/27/16
Posts: 2334
Location: US-IL
Bill Sonnett wrote:
I learned my lesson the hard way some 30 years ago when a steelhead trip was ruined when I was talked into spooling up a spinning reel with 10 pound fluorescent blue colored Trilene XL. The large bulk spool had been sitting where the sun hit it on one side. The line broke every 20 inches or so where the sun had hit it. On the other hand, I had some very hard camo colored mono that was sold by Weber that I purchased around 1961 and has been in a drawer most of its life. As of 10 years ago, it was still tough as nails and I was still using it as a trace at the end of braided nylon on vintage bait casting outfits. So I agree with the statement above that soft mono degrades faster than hard. I appreciate being educated in this post on the environmental problems of Fluorocarbon. I have not used it but you have made sure that I never will. When I think of the large quantities left behind by some careless modern baitcasters, it is very troubling.

Always thought trilene xl and xt were crap xl especially,too stretchy and knots burned themselves when tying on .Big Game is stiff as heck but tough.For mono Stren was always reliable.I used cortland camo and clear for a long time but i cant find it any where these days and what i have is getting old.


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