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Post 21 Oct 2019, 19:46 • #1 
Guide
Joined: 04/25/17
Posts: 121
Location: USA-MT
I am used to fishing big flies for muskies with 400-450 grain SA sink 25 with an 11wt, and mostly from boats.

The line I am looking for would be to shore fish high mountain lakes for trout with a 5wt fiberglass rod. I was thinking a sink 3, but I am a little unsure on sinking or floating running line and shooting head length (or even the sink 3)? does anyone have a specific brand/line they like for this?


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Post 21 Oct 2019, 20:46 • #2 
Sport
Joined: 03/03/13
Posts: 56
Location: US-VA
I like the Teeny sink tip lines. The Weight Forward Mini-Tip might be what your are looking for. Here is a link.

http://www.jimteeny.com/Weight-Forward- ... _c_16.html

Coach


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Post 21 Oct 2019, 22:38 • #3 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 05/19/14
Posts: 3924
Location: USA - Illinois
T-130 would do well on a 5 wt. for a sinking line - look at the Teeny website for specs.


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Post 21 Oct 2019, 23:27 • #4 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/06/15
Posts: 1249
Location: Central Oregon
They are all horrible...... and catch lots of fish.

AirFlo are the least evil.


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Post 22 Oct 2019, 08:57 • #5 
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Joined: 06/21/06
Posts: 3080
Location: Orygun
I personally like the Airflo lines....best in combination of performance and longevity, imo. For trout in lakes, my most used is a type 3 followed by an intermediate (Sixth Sense lines are absolutely bomber).

edit: I just read that you're fishing from shore. I'd just go intermediate in that situation, otherwise, if you're not ripping it back, you'll be hanging up unless fishing a drop.

I too fish the SA (the Titan I/2/4) for muskies and love it as well for that application, but it's starting to fall apart after a season and a half. Same with any Teeny line I've used, they just don't hold up as well. Don't even get me started on Rio. No line should only last a half dozen outings before delaminating, which has happened multiple times with multiple lines from them. They DO have excellent customer service (I suppose they'd have to).


Last edited by clarkman23 on 22 Oct 2019, 09:12, edited 2 times in total.

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Post 22 Oct 2019, 09:02 • #6 
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Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19077
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
jhuskey wrote:
T-130 would do well on a 5 wt. for a sinking line - look at the Teeny website for specs.

este

only go to bigger for really big water and big rods - TS-250 is go-to for the salt, except for a slime line between knee and waist deep.


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Post 22 Oct 2019, 14:13 • #7 
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Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4966
Location: US-MT
I have an old, Orvis kinda burnt orange intermediate that is a joy to cast and fish. With a lightly weighted fly it will get down fairly well, and I can see the line easily, even under a couple feet of water.

I don't have any mountain lakes I fish that I would need or want a truly sinking line.


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Post 22 Oct 2019, 16:12 • #8 
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Joined: 04/25/17
Posts: 121
Location: USA-MT
majicwrench wrote:
I have an old, Orvis kinda burnt orange intermediate that is a joy to cast and fish. With a lightly weighted fly it will get down fairly well, and I can see the line easily, even under a couple feet of water.

I don't have any mountain lakes I fish that I would need or want a truly sinking line.


Lightning lake has some monster golden trout (5lbs) if you can get to the lake and get a fly deep. :)

That may be an outlier though. I could see only fishing in the top of of the column. I have (back when I was a kid) taken spinners and sunk them to the bottom and killed it in some of the lakes in the beartooths, but I don't have a lot of experience trying to strip streamers in lakes for trouts.


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Post 22 Oct 2019, 17:01 • #9 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4966
Location: US-MT
I would be surprised if you really needed a sinking line..how deep are you trying to get?? From shore?? How deep is the lake?? Most of the mountain lakes round here the fish are always looking up, or cruising the shore edges. The depths are kinda devoid of food is my thinking.

I know a few lower lakes that the fish go deep as the water warms at the very peak of summr, and that is the only time I need to go deep, and even then a weighted nymph and a longish leader works well.


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Post 24 Oct 2019, 20:46 • #10 
Sport
Joined: 06/01/17
Posts: 63
Location: Idaho
Maybe not super sexy, but you can get a Maxcatch full sink line for like $8 shipped at everybody's favorite auction site. I have been using the "brown" (it's roughly a type III) WF5S for a couple years with no complaints. It is my go-to stillwater line.


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Post 25 Oct 2019, 10:59 • #11 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/06/15
Posts: 1249
Location: Central Oregon
Maxcatch also has a nice $12 clear intermediate sinking line which casts well, and I shed no tears when i wrapped it up in the trolling motor.


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Post 25 Oct 2019, 22:36 • #12 
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Joined: 02/04/18
Posts: 208
Location: US-MN
I just bought the Maxcatch intermediate for $8 on the auction site, haven't tried it yet, hopefully it's better than some of the sink tips I've tried and not like all that much.


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Post 26 Oct 2019, 07:06 • #13 
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Joined: 12/02/13
Posts: 134
Location: Argentina
Hi I use a lot Teeny T series ( 130 and 200 ) when i fish for trout wading or from a boat , but I have noticed that T series are not longer available ( EBay ) I guess they are out of market .
When I fish big rivers like Limay In Patagonia , and need long distances I rather prefer a SA shootting line


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Post 26 Oct 2019, 07:37 • #14 
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Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19077
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Jim Teeny has T-series lines in stock - http://www.jimteeny.com/T-Series_c_14.html

I use a Teeny line and a cats whisker 100% in warmwater,
and 50% of the time in coldwater, mixing bottom bouncing cats whiskers and swinging wets in deep current.
The list of techniques with the line is only limited by your imagination - riffle water to deep stillwater

the combination has pretty much caught any fish you can name - will bet you I have a photo of it...
(no clarkman, not a muskie.....yet)

I've consistently shot my TS-250 to 140' (including that much backing)


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Post 26 Oct 2019, 08:50 • #15 
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Joined: 06/21/06
Posts: 3080
Location: Orygun
bulldog1935 wrote:

the combination has pretty much caught any fish you can name - will bet you I have a photo of it...
(no clarkman, not a muskie.....yet)


you need to change that!

A T-400 would work great. I always have my 12wt rigged up with a depth charge 550, which in that situation would fish pretty similarly as the T-400 (on a 10wt). We're talking lake fish hanging out on drops and points.

A lot of the midwest musky guys are using that type of full sinking shooting head for river fish as well.


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Post 26 Oct 2019, 12:29 • #16 
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Joined: 12/31/15
Posts: 1238
Location: Northern Rockies
Eatfood wrote:
The line I am looking for would be to shore fish high mountain lakes for trout with a 5wt fiberglass rod. I was thinking a sink 3, but I am a little unsure on sinking or floating running line and shooting head length (or even the sink 3)? does anyone have a specific brand/line they like for this?

You need a true-to-weight intermediate line then. Though, a regular floating will often work well, especially if the fish aren't picky like a lot of mountain lakes.

You don't want to go with a line with a medium sink-rate like the type IIIs, as they will take you in and out of the ideal water depth too quickly. It's certainly possible to target to the top 6 or so feet (where stillwater fish most often feed), but it's much harder and you usually stay there for a shorter period of time due to the faster sink rate.

It's important to remember that your flies will move along the path of the line in front of them as you strip them in. What you want is to have your flies sink to a certain depth and stay there, as you strip them in (slower is usually better than faster, in my experience). The intermediate line sinks at a consistent depth, and allows you to strip them in a much straighter path of motion.

A floating line is still good for this ideal part of the water column, since it keeps your flies nearish to the surface (depending on leader length, weight of your flies, etc.). The challenge with a floating line is that it gives an unnatural, up-and-down motion to your flies as the leader hangs at an angle, from the top of the water to the depth of your flies. So as you retrieve your flies, they move up along the path of the leader, and then sink again if/when you pause. You can often get plenty of fish in mountain lakes with a floating line, but that has more to do with them staying in the right part of the water column more often than not rather than their natural motion.


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Post 26 Oct 2019, 14:03 • #17 
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Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2498
Location: South of Joplin
That is what I found in the deeper kettle ponds back east, trout were all near the top and usually looking up. I preferred the floating lines there and tried to keep the flies about a foot down by weighting the fly and greasing a part of the leader. The reason I have no favorite sinking lines are that I have never found them effective where I have fished, I don't like the way fast full sinkers sink nor the way they handle, any intermediate line will work any where though, well anywhere that I have tried one.


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Post 26 Oct 2019, 18:06 • #18 
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Joined: 12/02/13
Posts: 134
Location: Argentina
Thank you Bulldog , I will take a look at JIm Teeny website !
Tromen


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Post 27 Oct 2019, 01:05 • #19 
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Joined: 04/25/17
Posts: 121
Location: USA-MT
Thanks for all the suggestions and info everyone! I am sort of looking at the rio camolux intermediate, but I have had similar problems as Clarkman in the past with rio. does anyone have that line? I also got an islander ir3 and I am a touch worried about line memory/coil, which I have read is a problem with the airflo?


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Post 27 Oct 2019, 02:45 • #20 
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Joined: 12/31/15
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Location: Northern Rockies
The RIO Camolux is a complicated line, but if you can make it work, I really like it.

It looks like it's been updated recently, and RIO isn't publishing the grain weights on the newest version of the line. Perhaps you can get that from contacting them directly. The new version appears to have a slightly longer head; the two that I have in 5- and 7-weights have a 30' head, which was standard across all line weights a few years ago. I have no idea how that affects their compliance with AFFTA standards.

In the previous version, RIO used the old shooting head model--add two line weights with a shortish, 30' head. So, a 5-wieght line would measure out as a 7-weight line. FWIW, I started using my 5-weight RIO Camolux with my Epic 686, and it performs nicely. The challenge with these lines is that they're designed for fast-, fast-action graphite (RIO is owned by the same parent company that owns Sage, and there is a lot of crossover between the two). You'll need to pay close attention to the grain weights with any rod/line combination you choose, and experimentation may be necessary.

For my two cents, the RIO stillwater camp lines are fantastic, but if you don't have the time to experiment, it may be worth looking elsewhere.


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Post 27 Oct 2019, 06:50 • #21 
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Joined: 07/22/11
Posts: 1720
Location: US-TX
Like my Teeny T130 line. Never was a fan of sink tip lines vs full sink lines due to the hinge effect and loss of feel in what was going on with the fly; I would rather use a spinning rod/reel with fly/weights combo over sink tips.

I wish Teeny brought back their BS100 sink lines for my rods less than 5wt.


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Post 27 Oct 2019, 09:29 • #22 
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Joined: 04/25/17
Posts: 121
Location: USA-MT
GlacierRambler wrote:
The RIO Camolux is a complicated line, but if you can make it work, I really like it.

It looks like it's been updated recently, and RIO isn't publishing the grain weights on the newest version of the line.


This is exactly the response I was looking for! thanks rambler. Maybe it is a mobile app thing, but when I select the line it tells me 185 grain, which seems like it would be too heavy. oh well back to the drawing board. there is a 160 grain "4 wt".....

I need to look into these jim teeny lines a bit more. I see cortland makes a camo int line, but I have read of coiling issues there too.


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Post 27 Oct 2019, 10:05 • #23 
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Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19077
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Teeny T-series lines are spliced shooting heads. They're all listed by grain-weight. T-lines are 24' shooting head spliced to 60' running line; TS-lines are 30' shooting head spliced to 70' running line. As soon as the line changes color in your hand, shoot.
Usually shoot with no more than a single back-cast for line speed. (Begin Everything you do with a roll cast, as in, roll-cast, back-cast, shoot.)
They roll-cast unbelievably, they're thread-thin - many times I've split the back of my knuckles striking big fish.
They take up 1/8" on your spool, so you need copious backing.

I high-stick them; wade down riffles roll-cast, swing, repeat; swing wet flies; bottom bounce; sight-fish with amazing stealth; troll them in chutes; countdown, and have caught suspended snapper 40' deep on a TS-350.
I fish my slime lines in the salt flats, but otherwise to me, Teeny are the Last sinking lines, like my '84 Alfa GTV6 was the Last automobile.
(the missing BS lines - basic sink - were 20' shooting heads spliced to 40' running line)

Image

Image


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Post 27 Oct 2019, 10:33 • #24 
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Joined: 04/06/15
Posts: 1249
Location: Central Oregon
I need to chime in here a bit more. My personal experiences differ from some of what others have found.

I first started working on sinking line technique when Ron Belak, who literally wrote the book on fishing mountain lakes in Colorado came out (see Belak, Fishing Colorado's Backcountry; Strategy for high lakes and streams). Ron went straight to a full sinking line. I later read a lot of Denny Rickards work, and he contends an intermediate line will be the right one 80% of the time. Finally local experts on a few of our better high lakes have told me if there is no surface action, they go straight to a type 6 full sink line.

Of course I had to get them all and find out for myself. I now have over a dozen different sinking lines of varying sink rates and weights.

Here's what I've found personally:

They all have coil/memory problems. The faster the sink rate the worse the coil issue. Rio full sink lines are the worst. Airflow the best. Cortland Camo not bad. Teeny pretty good. Don't ever leave them in a hot car on a reel.

Often you just really have to have the right line. I went to a high lake with a friend and used his fly, a mini flashy bugger. I used Cortland camo intermediate line and offered him my full sinker but he said he'd get by with a floating line, long leader and split shot. (pretty shallow lake). As I was reeling in fish #6 on his fly, he had not had a bite. I gave him my line, and he caught fish instantly. Another time I caught fish on or just below the surface on a floater, and many big fish on a full sink line. but an hour of hard fishing and various retrieves and sink times yielded nothing on the intermediate.

A fast sinking line is more fun than a slow line and patience. I went to a talk on our famous East Lake and the presenter basically said slow sink lines are time wasting and he can get the retrieves and depths he wants by learning the behaviour of type 6 full sink. I find my Airflo type 5 line gets down fast and has some marks to help you know where it is. I have a Teeny TS250, and bulldog has explained in no uncertain terms that it is not really a sink tip line, but I find it easier to keep track of where my fly is on the full sink lines.

Sink tip lines are nice for streams, but I don't use them much in lakes. The exception is bass near a steep bank. The Teeny casts great and is wonderful for that.

I have a friend who slays them in a shallow lake on a hover line where I use a floater. I need to learn more about that one.


Last edited by Newfydog on 27 Oct 2019, 10:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 27 Oct 2019, 10:39 • #25 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2498
Location: South of Joplin
So what would happen if you cut a 24' head (T-130) back to get the desired weight for the ultra light rods served by the BS100?
I have 15' ST (Cortland, I think) and to be honest in my creek it would get more use if the tip were shorter. I'm sure it must have some hinge to it , but I've never noticed any. The TS series would be full sinkers on about all the streams I fish.


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