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Post 07 May 2019, 18:41 • #1 
Sport
Joined: 12/27/16
Posts: 52
Location: US-CT
So I am doing research to take the plunge for my first glass rod to fish small streams out West (CO, ID, MT, WY) for trout.

I am thinking about a weight but could go 3 if that is recommended.

The “thing” is I live on the East coast so these trip involve at least one flight and I am taking multiple rods so I think a 4 piece rod would be a big benefit.

It seems with these perimeters, my options are a Scott F724 or Epic 476. Which from my research here on this forum is a slower action option and a faster action option.

Am I missing rods to look at? There seems to be a lot of cool options out there but the majority of them are three piece. Does the fact that there are not a lot of 4 piece options tell me something?

Thanks


Pro


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Post 07 May 2019, 18:47 • #2 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 03/16/08
Posts: 3543
Location: Upstate-NY
Chris Barclay is a bona fide small stream enthusiast,
and happens to design/build some KILLER 4pc small stream tapers.

If it were me, and i had your criteria, id start (and end!) with him


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Post 07 May 2019, 18:54 • #3 
Guide
Joined: 09/04/13
Posts: 142
Location: US-MT
I second Corlay's advice. Chris makes wonderful four-piece small stream rods...


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Post 07 May 2019, 19:50 • #4 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/31/15
Posts: 1248
Location: Northern Rockies
It's usually not a problem to bring a rod case on an airline with your carry-on luggage. Things may have changed, but 9 years ago, I brought a 2-piece rod with me for no extra cost. Just in case, call the airline.

All that to say that I would choose your rod based on conditions. I don't think you'll have a problem with transportation within the U.S.

What kind of streams do you intend to fish out west? When are you coming, and what size flies do you plan on fishing

I'm not sure I would consider the Epic a go-to small stream rod, but it can certainly handle them well. It's a versatile rod, and I've fished it here in MT from anything to tight, brushy water a few feet wide to large, complex rivers. It kind of depends on your definition of "small stream," but if it were me, I'd start with the ********* Western Glass series in the 3- or 4-weights (the 4-weight is one of my favorite all-time rods). But the 5-weight wouldn't be too much either out here, and it gives you the versatility to throw bigger hoppers, etc.


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Post 07 May 2019, 20:25 • #5 
Guide
Joined: 12/31/12
Posts: 326
Location: US-MA
I would highly recommend Chris Barclay's 70p (7' 4wt 4pc) or 64p (6'4" 4wt 4pc). The 70p would probably be a bit more flexible.


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Post 07 May 2019, 21:36 • #6 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 01/02/12
Posts: 1861
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
If you can narrow down some of the water you are looking to fish, that could be helpful. It is not likely you will be able to fish all the waters “out west” with a single rod, thus the notion of trying to narrow down the intended waters. I have one of Chris’ 8’2” Tailwater Specials 4/5wt. I have landed 20”+ fish with that rod. I love that rod. I know folks who have his 64P and swear by it. His Synthesis series of rods offers some good options. All of his rods are great and mostly 4pc. Some of his rods come available on this forum. In longer rods, the ********* glass rods come highly regarded. Again, I know someone who swears by Dusty’s 8’6” 3wt for most rivers he fishes. So, see what you can do to narrow down the where and that would be helpful with the what. Also, don’t sell 3pc rods short. I travel with 3pc rods up to 8’6” with no problem.







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Post 07 May 2019, 21:58 • #7 
Inactive
Joined: 05/15/17
Posts: 306
Location: US-PA
I wouldn't bring the F 724 out west. I was fishing it on a windy day recently and it lacked the guts for it. However, I also fished the 663 that same day, spot, and conditions and it handled the wind far better.


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Post 08 May 2019, 07:38 • #8 
Sport
Joined: 12/27/16
Posts: 52
Location: US-CT
Thanks for everyone’s thoughts. To be more specific about the water I am thinking about, this whole idea started on the Big Wood in ID, in the National Forest section. (North of Ketchem). But Greyling Creek in MT is another spot I have fished that comes to mind as a possible location.

I am working on a trip this summer to southern WY that may include some smaller water.

I have a medium action, 9 foot 4 weight graphite rod that I really enjoy on tailwaters, etc but it is not the right tool for smaller water where the casts are not that long and space is tighter. Which is where I am thinking a shorter glass rod could be a good add.
Pro


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Post 08 May 2019, 08:07 • #9 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 10/09/09
Posts: 2798
Location: US-NM
Chris's 70P if you could find one,a Scott F 583 or 653 all 3 are 4pc. rods......Aurelio


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Post 08 May 2019, 08:59 • #10 
Master Guide
Joined: 12/31/13
Posts: 519
Location: US-Mount Pleasant, SC
I do a 7'0" 2/3wt 4pc in raw tip-over config, rolled by Mike McFarland. Just finished the last prototype and it was worth developing. Now that I have the treat of hiking with 4 kids under 8, the smaller I can pack a fishing rod into a suitcase and hiking pack the more likely my wife is to let me fish.


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Post 08 May 2019, 09:13 • #11 
Guide
Joined: 08/21/18
Posts: 168
Location: West Yellowstone and Atlanta
There are two other aspects of this I dont think i have seen mentioned.

There are small streams, and there are small streams. The Grayling Cr. is bigger and more open than many small streams, more like the upper, upper Gallatin, Gibbon and Firehole Rivers. Many of the smaller streams i fish in the Yellowstone area and in YNP tend to have some forested tree cover or bankside willows, but not so much thick overhead rhododendron-type cover like in many small streams in No. Ga. and western NC where I also fish a good bit. All of which means maybe western and eastern streams deserve different approaches. Given where you live and where you intend to fish in the west, there might (or might not) be some tension that requires/allows you to look at more than one rod.

The original post (and then the responses) described modern glass rods as options. If you are open to vintage rods, a bunch more options open up.


Last edited by wthorpe on 08 May 2019, 12:16, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 08 May 2019, 09:34 • #12 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8931
Location: US-ME
Wthorpe has a very sharp point. Not sure where it will lead you. For meadow brooks you can jump across--gosh they can be fun to fish--almost anything will do. If a 9' graphite 4 weight were my go-to rod, I'd let that fill the 4 weight niche. In 'glass, I'd want a 6 or 7 weight to tumble some Bitch Creek nymphs through some boulder-strewn "small" streams, or work size 4 and 6 streamers along cut banks for big fish.

At the very least, base your line weight choice on the time of year as it relates to the size of flies you might expect to fish, not the size of the water. Typically the line weight will be heavier than you think if conditioned to what folks do with "light" line graphite rods. That graphite 4 will do a lot for you, so something comparably versatile in 'glass, but across a different range might add more to your fishing out there

Hope you will post more about your choice and then the trip.


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Post 08 May 2019, 09:51 • #13 
Guide
Joined: 02/06/16
Posts: 330
Location: US
There is a lot of very good suggestions for a 4 piece so far, but I'll add another. I have the Axisco 703-4 Feelex II and it is SOFT, but it is one lovely rod to fight small stream trout on. If you were up for a 3 piece, I'd recommend the 7' Yomogi.

https://www.bluedun.net/axisco_feelex_e.html


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Post 08 May 2019, 12:45 • #14 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/16/05
Posts: 2538
Location: Georgia
Sounds like this would be your first glass rod, as well as your first 3 wt. In that case, I wouldn’t recommend a 3 for western small streams. In the past a time or two I’ve taken a glass 6’6” or 7’ 3wt that I’ve fished a lot, but a 4 wt is as light as I use there these days. I’d suggest a 5, especially as you already have a 4 wt. There will be wind at some point, even on small wooded streams, and I’d have to go way up the E Fork of the Big Wood before I’d begin to think 8’ was cramping my style. Grayling Ck too, although that’s been at least 10 years. And an 8’ 5wt is nice if you’re on small hopper water, and generally versatile.

Currently made multi-piece rods that come to mind include the Barclay 82 Tailwater Special (name aside). Pretty sure when I cast it was with a 5 wt, and maybe retiredfisher will mention his line choice. Another Barclay I cast the same day was his 79 General Practioner, in the 5 piece configuration. Cast a lot of good rods that day, and those stuck with me, for what you might be looking for. I’d also not hesitate to recommend the Kenney 8055. I have a rod built on a prototype of that blank that turned out to be a little more of a 6 than the 5 wt that was intended; I happily fish it as a 6, and it’s one of my favorites.

Is this for this summer? Unlike a Scott or something, you cant go to a shop and have them say, “not in stock, but it’ll be here next week.” Pretty sure you couldn’t get a 8055 from Larry Kenney by July, not sure about Chris Barclay’s rods. You might put out a request on our “rods wanted” board, and scan the rods for sale board. If older multi-piece rods might interest you, that opens up more options like a FF756-4; I usually fish it as a 6 but it’s often thought of as a 5/6 and I’m usually one to be on the heavier line of those choices.


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Post 08 May 2019, 13:19 • #15 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/09/05
Posts: 2525
Location: US-CO
I agree with most of the advice that has been given, and these are streams on which I do most of my fishing.

Key recommended parameters:

4 or more piece (for travel) I like a 6pc that allows me to not look like a fisherman when hiking to secret spots, because it fits inside my pack.

7’6” rod - 7ft has proven too short for me and sometimes (but not often in the west) 8’ is too long. I think that perfect for the west would 7’9”...Shakespeare had that right from day one.

At least a 4 wt (even then the wind can shut you down, especially above timberline...there I always take a 6 wt). You would be way undergunned most of the time if you got a 7 ft 3 wt.

There are a lot of nice ones, pick what you like. But, if anybody knows of a glass, 7’9”, 6 pc, 6 wt that is medium-to-slow...let me know. The closest I have is the Lamiglass honey-colored blank, 6 pc, 8 ft, 5/6 wt, which is pretty nice.


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Post 08 May 2019, 13:57 • #16 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 01/02/12
Posts: 1861
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Upstream and I were casting the Barclays at the same time. There were three that impressed me: the 8’2” 4/5 4pc, the 7’9” 4/5 5pc and the 6’8” 3wt 4pc. As for lines, I think that Chris uses 406’s on most of his rods. On my 8’2” I use an Orvis 5DT.


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Post 08 May 2019, 14:27 • #17 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 03/16/08
Posts: 3543
Location: Upstate-NY
paveglass wrote:
But, if anybody knows of a glass, 7’9”, 6 pc, 6 wt that is medium-to-slow...let me know.


Tiemco Fenwick "79.5" 7'9" 5pc 5wt.

pretty close to your spec, and a very nice pack rod.
a very "medium" action, that would slow if you overlined with a #6.


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Post 08 May 2019, 16:02 • #18 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4971
Location: US-MT
a 5 or 6wt is a much more useful rod IMHO, and like mentioned above, a 7ft rod is a little too short, again, IMHO

Looking forward to a trip report.

PS methinks most people take way too much gear (too many rods) and it complicates, rather than enhances, their fishing and their trip.


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Post 08 May 2019, 18:23 • #19 
Master Guide
Joined: 07/27/18
Posts: 375
Location: Probably at a Diner in Eastern PA
Given everything said. I would go with a Fenwick FF80-4
Could handle wind. Could drop a size 20 in a spring creek. Could handle a size 6 hopper. Could handle a 24” bow but still be fun with an 8” brookie.
8’ is fine in a tight spot, big enough to execute a decent roll cast and breaks down to a fine pack rod.
Plus you can get a decent example under $250.


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Post 08 May 2019, 18:44 • #20 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/09/05
Posts: 2525
Location: US-CO
corlay wrote:
paveglass wrote:
But, if anybody knows of a glass, 7’9”, 6 pc, 6 wt that is medium-to-slow...let me know.


Tiemco Fenwick "79.5" 7'9" 5pc 5wt.

pretty close to your spec, and a very nice pack rod.
a very "medium" action, that would slow if you overlined with a #6.


I think I bought one of those once thinking it was my perfect find and traded it off some years later because the blank was a bit heavier than I liked. Do I remember that right?


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Post 08 May 2019, 19:51 • #21 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/14/11
Posts: 1018
Location: Chicago Western Suburbs
wthorpe wrote:
There are two other aspects of this I dont think i have seen mentioned.

There are small streams, and there are small streams. The Grayling Cr. is bigger and more open than many small streams, more like the upper, upper Gallatin, Gibbon and Firehole Rivers. Many of the smaller streams i fish in the Yellowstone area and in YNP tend to have some forested tree cover or bankside willows, but not so much thick overhead rhododendron-type cover like in many small streams in No. Ga. and western NC where I also fish a good bit. All of which means maybe western and eastern streams deserve different approaches. Given where you live and where you intend to fish in the west, there might (or might not) be some tension that requires/allows you to look at more than one rod.

The original post (and then the responses) described modern glass rods as options. If you are open to vintage rods, a bunch more options open up.

Is grayling creek open now?


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Post 08 May 2019, 19:56 • #22 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/14/11
Posts: 1018
Location: Chicago Western Suburbs
If you’re wiling to go with a 3 piece rod I would recommend the Orvis 805 Superfine Glass rod or the 7’6” 3 wt. glass rod.


Last edited by softhackle on 09 May 2019, 20:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 08 May 2019, 19:57 • #23 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4971
Location: US-MT
Most of MT's creeks open 3rd Saturday in May


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Post 08 May 2019, 20:08 • #24 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/31/15
Posts: 1248
Location: Northern Rockies
softhackle wrote:
Is grayling creek open now?


It looks like it (starting Memorial Day weekend). I think I remember something about it being closed for killing and restocking actual grayling. Maybe I'm wrong on the timing.

Here are the current regs for Northwest Yellowstone.


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Post 08 May 2019, 20:19 • #25 
Guide
Joined: 01/10/16
Posts: 186
Location: Parkersburg, WV
I guess everyone’s definition of a “small stream” is different. I guess my small streams are smaller than most because I can’t imagine fishing a 4, 5, or 6wt to catch 8”-10” fish...and I’ve fished my fair share of small western streams. ;)

The only rod I’ve fished bigger than a 2wt on my trips out west is a Graywolf 64p and that was on a lake at tree line in CO. The rod lengths I’ve fished out west range anywhere from 6’6” to 9’.

As for flying with rods, I use my daypack as my carry-on and I usually strap the rod tubes to the pack. A short rod will carry nicely if it is a 3-piece or a 4-piece.

Best of luck to you!

Chris


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