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Post 02 Apr 2019, 19:09 • #51 
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Maybe southpaw is inherently cheating on the intuition of casting. My friend Lefty Ray Chapa, his forward cast is everyone else's back-cast.
Here I am making his cast, to keep my back-cast over the open channel and out of the trees behind me.
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I grew up casting spincast with my left arm, spinning with my right, about the same time took up fly fishing (southpaw) and baitcasters with left arm. I've insulted two guides when they tried to teach me what I was doing wrong with my baitcaster, then in demonstration of my error to them doubled their cast distance (I've only got about 5 different casts with baitcaster).
The intuition my right hand has for line control came from years of solving Donny's problem on the fly.
(oops, too much punch, better give back some line)
The rod is in my left hand, and the entire feel of the cast is in my right.
The left arm is doing its rote motion, the right hand is controlling the cast.
I've described before my underhand cast to get across a channel covered with 2' cypress overhang.
Vertical back-cast when needed for that little extra line speed and reach it can provide over roll-casting. Changing directions from back-cast to forward, no worries.
The left arm handles direction, the right hand handles the load.


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Post 02 Apr 2019, 20:04 • #52 
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Good point Graeme.It is nearly impossible to pinpoint those subtle things that knock things out kilter yourself.Whether casting ,shooting guns or arrows,even hitting a baseball as a kid.There are many many ways of doing something wrong but usually not many of doing something right.I am not a good caster and got in this game too late to get there.But i have fished as long as i can remember and i know i am a good angler ,i know how to catch fish.Why am i so obsessed with this ridiculously inefficient and frustrating method of angling?Hey it's fun.


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Post 02 Apr 2019, 20:24 • #53 
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Graeme, I never meant getting instruction wasn't good advice, just that it might not be usable.


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Post 04 Apr 2019, 14:29 • #54 
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Joined: 01/20/16
Posts: 297
Location: Pershing, Missouri
What a rich discussion, can't tell you right now what might be the best solution for me at this point, but thanks to all of you, I now have a wealth of options and resource material to work with now. For a not so experienced caster who took up the sport later in life it is great to have the benefit of the accumulated knowledge available in this forum, and easier to take advice from other 'old farts' :lol :lol like me. As soon as it stops raining I'm going outside and practice!

This is why I love this forum!


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Post 05 Apr 2019, 07:06 • #55 
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Joined: 02/27/12
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Location: US-AR
Great thread. When I started fishing my casting was pretty bad. As a matter of fact I could only roll cast at first. When I started my buddy told me to cast and just keep your flies on the water, and that is what I did. Eventually over the sum total of maybe a year I started to get the hang of it. I have been fishing now for close to 20 years, and I still mess up a cast or two from time to time. I will say once I made the jump from graphite to glass my casting improved. Here was a rod material that seemed to communicate to you while casting.

I tell people all of the time to slow down and let the rod do the work. Most fishing situations do not call for tournament casting, just presentation usually within 50ft, and do not fret about your cast, as long as you having fun and catching fish here or there then you have accomplished your goal. Flies on the water = fish.

Mike


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Post 05 Apr 2019, 07:38 • #56 
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Mike, you did just right. I taught my girls to hold the line, roll-cast and catch fish. When watching me, they decided to try a back-cast and shoot line, then gave them pointers on their cast. They both fish like pros.
Also for everybody, casting glass rods will improve you on graphite, because you will naturally wait for the graphite rod to load.


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Post 05 Apr 2019, 10:29 • #57 
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"the graphite rod to load." Does that actually happen?
All the ones I've had needed two line weights over before they felt like they were a part of it.


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Post 05 Apr 2019, 10:31 • #58 
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Joined: 05/15/17
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Location: US-PA
There's plenty of soft graphite out there if you're willing to look.


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Post 05 Apr 2019, 10:40 • #59 
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Trev, ever owned IM6 graphite? Fisher, Winston, Powell, Sage LL - jewels, and should be considered the last word in 9' rods.

And even my Graphite III Sage RPLX7 loads - how else could I shoot it 140' (consistently, TS-250 with basket, though the Allbright knot to backing sounds funny shooting through the guides)


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Post 05 Apr 2019, 11:41 • #60 
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I don't know the difference, graphite is graphite, what were the early Orvis Clearwater ? Had one of the first year models for a long time. The others I don't know or remember except they broke easy.
None of mine were high dollar stuff, $100 range 15-20 years ago, but the high priced stuff I've handled only Winston felt good empty.
Sage rods are not only broom handle stiff they are ugly to look at. I've probably handled more Sage rods than any other brand, just because they are so heavily marketed, and are on racks every where.


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Post 05 Apr 2019, 12:06 • #61 
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"graphite is graphite"....sort of true, but not exactly. The largest advances have been changing of resins and utilizing other (often proprietary) materials to both increase strength and lighten things up. Certain companies have even gone to *gasp* utilizing computers to design the best taper.

I believe BD in the past has mentioned busting out his RPLX when it gets really windy (correct me if I'm wrong). There's a reason for this: wind.

BTW, curious if you've handled some of the newer high-end stuff from Orvis or Loomis? i'm guessing not, since you (Trev) said you haven't. There's currently being a diversion from the Sage motto of "faster is better"...still fast, but "punchy" enough to get through any wind combined with amazing "feel".

All that said, I'm not getting rid of my Steffens or my Bandit anytime soon.


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Post 05 Apr 2019, 12:52 • #62 
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"BTW, curious if you've handled some of the newer high-end stuff from Orvis or Loomis?"
Not for a couple years, not looking for much anymore. I still play with all the stuff in the Cabela/Pro store every once in a while but they don't stock many brands- Sage + house brands+TFO (is that a BP brand?)
I've seen lots of all kinds of rods in action at our trout parks though (money no object to some customers there) and none of the carbon rods appear to load at fishing distance- they do get the line out but don't bend noticeably ever, even with a fish on. The fashion appears to be going towards longer rather than shorter rods, 10-12 rods on spring branch 10-25' wide.
There have been enough hand casters that could put line out there with no rod that it is obvious that a rod does not have to "load" or even be used in order to make the line go out.


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Post 05 Apr 2019, 13:20 • #63 
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clarkman23 wrote:
"...
I believe BD in the past has mentioned busting out his RPLX when it gets really windy (correct me if I'm wrong). There's a reason for t....

Hate to sidetrack the thread, but this was my first salt fly rod from the late 80s, and it has served me well for 3 decades (so has the hat). Flats, surf, jetties.
Image
I end up using it often because 3 pcs packs well in a kayak hold. I'll usually go out now with one of my 2-pc rods, rigged for flats wading, Izch 6/7 para S-glass as first choice - this does everything the Sage does except shock your joints when you shoot line, here with a slime line on a thigh-deep hole by a duck blind on Lighthouse Lakes, and earlier fishing a floating line on skinny water and casting to fish sign
Image Image
The lighter S-glass is the first choice, but before I had that rod, and what a wonderful backup, now, Fisher Natural 8-wt, absolute magic wand for quick, accurate presentation to fast fish sign - these two rods are the choice for wading (this is across big Aransas Bay in the back of a barrier island "lake")
Image
Since launching at Aransas Causeway and paddling to fish Lighthouse Lakes, we always end up back at the deep cut into the channel and awesome fishing on a falling tide, I'll break out the Sage to rig a TS-250 into the fast deep cut and channel slope, here hooked up to a nice black drum, who was running through the cut toward the channel.
Image

The Sage RPLX never claimed to be anything except a graphite III cannon, and it is - nothing delicate in any way.
In fact when Sage made the move to graphite IV, they fished so harsh that people complained, and graphite V, c 2000, came out with slower tapers and dampening designed-in.
None of these power rods are good for fishing close when you're sitting in the kayak, and recently added the CGR 7/8 for that job.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 05 Apr 2019, 13:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 05 Apr 2019, 13:21 • #64 
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Joined: 07/27/18
Posts: 375
Location: Probably at a Diner in Eastern PA
There seems to be a trend towards softer tips in new rods with a stiffer butt section. The claim is that the accuracy of the cast is improved and increases light tippet protection while still providing the power you "need".

I suppose for those brought up on broomsticks, this must feel like a revelation in casting while still adhering to the "technological advances" the industry needs to continue pushing upgrades to people who buy into the marketing plan.

I grew up casting on Gen1 Sage graphite which by today's standards feels like S-Glass. It would be nice to see them eventually work back to these tapers for the sake of new anglers getting into the sport, but I won't hold my breath.


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Post 05 Apr 2019, 13:37 • #65 
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I like all my rods, and can do with all of them what my buddy who fishes nothing but Winston IM6 in the salt would like to do.
A softer tip gives you more control and accuracy, especially with shorter line, and that progressive taper with power butt is very forgiving and accurate on long casts.
My first real fly rod was Fullflex A, and my next was a Powell IM6, 3rd the RPLX, 4th a Fisher Sterling, so I've cut my teeth on all rods.
Image


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Post 05 Apr 2019, 13:49 • #66 
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Joined: 07/28/15
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Location: CA-ON
My Polish comrade, "Secrets of fly casting'' by Jim Green. YouTube. Pay close attention to the tip. Study and practice the 5 essentials.To quicken The learning curve,learn about supple forms of "pull back".Relax,have patience and as always with "glass" slow down... While waiting for your back cast to unroll, "take up a cause,fall in love,write a book" - J. Carter of Mars


Last edited by stickleback on 06 Apr 2019, 11:19, edited 1 time in total.

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I suck at casting glass
Post 06 Apr 2019, 05:52 • #67 
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bulldog1935 wrote:
Trev, ever owned IM6 graphite? Fisher, Winston, Powell, Sage LL - jewels, and should be considered the last word in 9' rods.)


I’d add Diamondbacks to this fine list. I have held on to a few of them in lighter weights.


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Post 06 Apr 2019, 07:29 • #68 
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I'll take that endorsement as 5-star, and never tried Diamondback, but heard good things.
The day I brought home my Powell Silver Creek, in the alley behind Austin Angler - always parked full of Alfas, because Alfa of Austin was on the same block - oh yeah Powell IM6 - tried side by side with Sage LL 486, and to Joe Robinson's dismay, I picked the Powell.
I remember the Sage was effortless to 30', much like my favorite Thomas Light Special dry fly rod, but 30' is where the Powell came alive (much better tailwater trout rod).
Image
last word in automobiles


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Post 06 Apr 2019, 20:00 • #69 
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Joined: 04/17/12
Posts: 204
Location: Blacksburg, VA
paveglass wrote:
bulldog1935 wrote:
Trev, ever owned IM6 graphite? Fisher, Winston, Powell, Sage LL - jewels, and should be considered the last word in 9' rods.)


I’d add Diamondbacks to this fine list. I have held on to a few of them in lighter weights.


I have several of the Scott original G Series rods and I'd include them on the list as well; they're excellent rods.


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Post 07 Apr 2019, 12:14 • #70 
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Actually got out fishing yesterday.Have been out"casting" a couple times.I bought another eagle claw 5/6 for 20 bucks out of the bargain rod bin at my local tackle store.I need a beater rod for my trip this week.My son's new boat is big but there will be 3 of us and his beast weimaraner with golf driver sized paws.I took the eagle claw with intermediate sinking line.Clear low end Rio.Had never cast a sink line before.Just as discussed i hauled in and out and sidearmed into a stiff breeze was getting out past 50'.The same conditions i will probably have on the trip.The little 6' herter's i bought from a member did not like the wind.I think i have a 4wt line instead of 5 on the reel.It would not load short.But with 20 feet out it cast beautifully out to 40 with a foam bluegill bug.It roll cast excellent as i was casting from the side of a giant muskrat house with overhanging trees with vines etc.Areal jungle but the only place i saw any bugs or fish.This one will be going with me too to fish off the docks .I have got alot out of this thread myself and just switching between the 2 rods that cast very differently i got into a nice groove.I missed 3 big bluegills so my timing on the hook sets was not good.


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Post 07 Apr 2019, 12:35 • #71 
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Joined: 04/15/09
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Location: US-OH
Im6 are the best graphite rods ever made. They really are a perfect balance. Last new graphite rod I casted was when Hellos first hit the scene. 5 casts or so into testing I was banging out 80ft casts with great accuracy. Impressive. I had an old diamondback camofly 7wt I used for bass fishing in lillypads. I was able to cast out all the fly line and about 20ft of babackingThe dog in the pic jumped into the boat and on top of the rod and broke it. These rods have their place.


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Post 07 Apr 2019, 13:43 • #72 
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I bought a tfo 5wt,Lefty signature model.The older 2 piece model maybe 10 yrs old.New in the sock.Not a broom stick at all.It casts 20 30 feet farther than any of my glass rods.Caught 6 stocked rainbows in 10 mins.Could not get out to them with my 7' phillipson.These were all 3lb plus rainbows stocked in a private lake and the rod performed great.I gifted it to my son hoping he will at least try fly fishing.The early graphite spinning and casting rods are the same,i never broke one.I have broken several later models and not cheap ones.


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Post 27 Dec 2019, 15:36 • #73 
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Joined: 06/01/17
Posts: 63
Location: Idaho
bulldog1935 wrote:
nor does tailing loops require an MD, but maybe a JD around here.
Sorry to bump an old thread, but that was funny.


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Post 27 Dec 2019, 16:43 • #74 
Sport
Joined: 06/01/17
Posts: 63
Location: Idaho
bulldog1935 wrote:
the tip collapses because he pushes the rod too hard, it doesn't matter how far you arc it - might even make it worse because of trying even harder to get there.

Whatever is going to make him feel the rod load rather than trying to force the rod to load is going to solve this, and learning how to load it smoothly with short arcs and haul is going to let him feel the rod load in both hands. .
Too many cooks in this kitchen.

My casting stroke was refined by years of fishing Teeny lines (first on Orvis Fullflex A), but the same feel I'm looking for in my line hand applies to all rods and all lines. Slow down the rod hand, keep it smooth and short, and look for the feel of loading the rod in the line hand.
It works well enough I can take a CGR with a foot of front taper out the tip, be through the belly on the 2nd stroke, and shoot twice the belly on the 3rd.

I honestly can't remember the last time I tied a wind knot with any rod.
Can you describe how you arrange the timing/power/length of the haul when casting a soft rod using a short arc? With fast rods I haul right at the end of the power stroke, but this seems to reach a point of diminishing returns with soft rods as the distance increases. It just feels like the rod shocks but without a corresponding increase in line speed.


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Post 27 Dec 2019, 17:14 • #75 
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Just as the pick-up for the backcast, the forecast needs to come on gradually, because fiberglass continues to accept a load after the point where it reaches its flex limit. You feel the tug of the backcast straightening, but an abrupt haul and forecast isn't the response. Gradually apply power to the forecast, and the same for the haul. Another help may be to shoot a little line on the backcast, and when that produces the "tug" (the line has straightened) come on forward with a gradual application of power and haul.


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