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DIY leaders
Post 06 Jan 2017, 10:23 • #1 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/02/13
Posts: 1173
Location: Milwaukee, WI
For those of you who fabricate your own leaders out of tippet (we're talking straight tapered leaders.. not furled/twisted)...

what's your 'recipe' and preferred tippet brands (particularly for dry flies) and source of materials?


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Re: DIY leaders
Post 06 Jan 2017, 11:00 • #2 
Master Guide
Joined: 12/23/15
Posts: 654
Location: Texas bound
A mix of Maxima and Rio for me. Stiff Maxiuma Ultragreen for the butt and Rio tippet material (usually powerflex or suppleflex)

Formula depends on the rod but usually 40% butt starting with 25lb Max then 40% taper and 20 % tippet. I typically taper from 25 to 20 to 15 to 12 to 8lb with Maxima then the last section or three is the more supple tippet material. I would connect a long 4X tippet to the 8lb Maxima for bigger flies. Or if going smaller I would shorten the 4X and add in 18 inches of 5x for the smaller flies. I almost never go smaller than 5x anymore - if the bug is too small I wont fish it and will fish a larger soft hackle or attractor pattern. I used to fish the tiny bugs on 6 & 7X tippets but decided to draw a line in the sand at 5X and don't fish smaller than a size 16 much anymore.


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Re: DIY leaders
Post 06 Jan 2017, 11:09 • #3 
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Joined: 02/24/12
Posts: 493
Location: Portland, Oregon
Joe,
I mostly fish small streams so my leaders are generally on the shorter side. Here are two of my favorite recipes:

5' 4X

12" .015
12" .013
12" .012
6" .010
6" .008
12" .007

6'10" 4X

18" .015
12" 0.13
8" .012
6" .010
4" .008
22" .007

Both leader formulas are from Charlie Meck's book Fishing Small Streams with a Fly Rod. I've tried other formulas, but these two really work well for me. For dry fly fishing I usually cut back the 4X a little and then add some 5X to lengthen. The leaders without any 5X added are excellent nymph/streamer leaders. For materials I use clear Maxima for everything down to 0.10, Cortland Precision tippet for .009 and then Umpqua nylon tippet for everything .008 and smaller. I couldn't find the Umpqua in .009 locally so that is why the cortland tippet is in the mix. When fishing medium size water I'll usually take the 6'10" leader and cut back the 4X about 10" and then add 18" or so of 5X which gives you a nice 7.5' 5X leader. I haven't dabbled too much in longer leaders yet, but its on my to-do list for this year. i hope this info helps and have fun with it!

David


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Re: DIY leaders
Post 06 Jan 2017, 11:46 • #4 
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Joined: 06/21/06
Posts: 3080
Location: Orygun
I like Maxima as well. I usually start with a butt section of Chameleon, which is stiffer, then the rest is with UG. Specific recipes vary depending on how I'm fishing. For dries on my 7.5' 4wt, for example, I keep it really simple, 1.5' 20-25# Chameleon, 2' 12-15# UG, 2' 10-12# UG, 3' 8# UG, tippet. If I'm throwing larger dries, the second section from the butt will also be Chameleon instead of ultragreen and I'll shorten the overall length. That's my standard, but I've been known to get lazy and just go 15-12-8-tippet and call it good, and that works great for me too, even at longer distances.

For nymphing it's totally different: 1.5' 25# Chameleon, 8' 15# Chameleon, 2' 12-15# with a nonslip loop where I loop on tippet. Works very well for me...others mileage may vary. Honestly though, in all of my experimenting with this, I've found far more "right" ways of doing it than "wrong" ways. I started with a generic recipe I found online and adjusted from there to fit exactly what works best for me.

Cheers.


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Re: DIY leaders
Post 06 Jan 2017, 11:56 • #5 
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Joined: 07/05/10
Posts: 5229
Location: Mid Hudson Valley of New York
More here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=54669&hilit=Harvey


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Re: DIY leaders
Post 06 Jan 2017, 12:19 • #6 
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Joined: 04/02/13
Posts: 1173
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Excellent info. I think I'll be alleviating some cabin fever by experimenting with tippet. Thanks all!


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Re: DIY leaders
Post 06 Jan 2017, 12:46 • #7 
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Joined: 10/12/06
Posts: 1184
Location: US-CA
I"m pretty much the same as mmckenzie and clarkman23 in that I use Maxima and Rio basically. Maxima for the major portion,butt and taper, Rio for tippets. I like the Maxima in Chameleon and Ultra green, the Rio Powerflex for trout tippets. One other thing I do for low light conditions or any hard to see situations is I build a butt section out of Amnesia Fluorescent green or red, this also doubles as a strike indicator when I'm nymphing.
I'm pretty basic with design, using the traditional 60-20-20 formula out to about 16' on my longest leaders. I use just straight leader material on some of my Salmon/Steelhead leaders as well as surf fishing.
Respectfully rvreclus


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Re: DIY leaders
Post 06 Jan 2017, 12:52 • #8 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/23/08
Posts: 944
Location: US-MT
A 40lb butt tapering down to 0x in 7' for streamers. Dry flies or nymphs? Add some smaller tippet to the 0x


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DIY leaders
Post 07 Jan 2017, 14:11 • #9 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 08/25/08
Posts: 1526
Location: Delton, MI
I've been fiddling with leader formulas for nigh on 30 years. For Christmas, I tidied up a spreadsheet I started about 20 years ago, and gave it to my kids to pass on what modicum of knowledge I have. I don't think I've gone a year without ever changing it and I might change it again but the changes I've made lately are very small. The spreadsheet includes a new knot, the SOLIS knot, that I've designed for tying leader sections that are far apart in diameter. There are Slack Line Dry, all-purpose, nymph, big fly, and diving leaders and my leaders are designed for particular line weight ranges to be used in fresh and salt water. You will also find recommendations for brands of material to be used. You are welcome to use the formulas and SOLIS knot but for personal use only. To print either image below, you may select the image to be displayed in another tab and print it out for your own personal use.

Image


Image


Last edited by CrustyBugger on 01 Feb 2017, 17:47, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: DIY leaders
Post 24 Jan 2017, 21:15 • #10 
Master Guide
Joined: 11/28/15
Posts: 378
Location: US-NC
Get a copy of Joe Humphreys' "Trout Tactics." He has hand tied leader formulas for each style of fly fishing discussed in each chapter. I had an old Orvis leader kit (maxima I believe) and spent hours tying up leaders and putting them in a carefully cataloged, on-stream leader book.

When I found myself spending more time changing leaders to suit a change in conditions 20' up the stream, I started looking for a faster system. In Gary Borger's book "Presentations", he details a system consisting of a fixed leader butt about 6 or 7 feet long, and just changing/adjusting tippet as the need arises.

BB


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Re: DIY leaders
Post 24 Jan 2017, 21:37 • #11 
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Joined: 12/27/14
Posts: 1501
Location: ON, Canada
bvandeuson wrote:
When I found myself spending more time changing leaders to suit a change in conditions 20' up the stream, I started looking for a faster system. In Gary Borger's book "Presentations", he details a system consisting of a fixed leader butt about 6 or 7 feet long, and just changing/adjusting tippet as the need arises.

BB


That's what I do - Borger Uni-Body leader. The system is outlined here: http://www.garyborger.com/2012/05/09/un ... le-leader/

It doesn't cast as well as a more subtly tapered leader, but onstream I just like its versatility, which adds up to more time with my fly in the water.

I'm wanting to try furled leaders this season, tho. Just for something new.


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DIY leaders
Post 25 Jan 2017, 00:29 • #12 
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Joined: 08/25/08
Posts: 1526
Location: Delton, MI
I probably learned more about leaders from Borger's Presentation than any other single source. I list my leaders as separate leader formulas but if you are astute, you will find a commonality between many of them very similar to a unibody leader except my unibody is . 016" and .011". I opted opposite from you however and found it easier to change a leader with a loop to loop system than to add two or three more leader sections on the stream to get the perfect leader for another situation. But that doesn't change the brilliance of what Borger taught which was actually producing leader sections together as far apart in diameter as possible which in turn reduces the number of sections which in turn reduces the number of knots you have to tie to get a good leader. Most leader systems rely on the blood knot to tie a leader together. The blood knot is small, somewhat symmetrical, goes through guides easily, and a few more desirable characteristics. However, the blood knot is not easy to tie for some people. But the biggest problem with the blood knot is that it is meant for leader sections that are close in diameter, only a couple thousandths of inches apart which means lots of leader sections and lots of knots. If you try to tie sections more than a couple of thousandths apart in diameter, the blood knot comes apart. Borger suggested a modified blood knot by using more wraps on the small diameter section. Still Apte had a bit better execution by doubling up the thin section before tying the blood knot. The problem is both versions still unravel with some modern monofilaments that have lubicants added to the surface. I took on the task of designing a new knot that solves these problems. In the end my new knot is easier to tie, smaller, and stronger than the blood knot, and most importantly can tie two section where one is almost twice the diameter of the other. I call it the SOLIS Knot. Look at my spreadsheet and you'll see a diagram and instructions for tying the SOLIS knot. With this knot, I have designed a whole leader system that uses as few knots as possible to get leaders that perform as good as the best performing leaders out there regardless of the number of sections. And they cost less than 20 cents each compared to most knotless leaders that cost 5 or 6 dollars each. It takes only a few minutes to tie the most complex of my leaders. I also design my leaders to match fly line size. Very few leaders do this but I have found it makes a huge difference in accuracy and castability of flies with the particular line weight you are using. My system may seem daunting at first but take into consideration it covers lines from 2 to 12 weight and includes leaders for slack line dry flies, easy turnover , nymph fishing, streamers and poppers, and sinking leaders. It's actually a highly optimized yet simplified system.


Last edited by CrustyBugger on 27 Jan 2017, 03:34, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: DIY leaders
Post 25 Jan 2017, 01:33 • #13 
Master Guide
Joined: 12/23/15
Posts: 654
Location: Texas bound
Crusty - is there any chance you could do a photo montage of your SOLIS knot?


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Re: DIY leaders
Post 25 Jan 2017, 05:49 • #14 
Master Guide
Joined: 11/28/15
Posts: 378
Location: US-NC
brockton wrote:
bvandeuson wrote:
When I found myself spending more time changing leaders to suit a change in conditions 20' up the stream, I started looking for a faster system. In Gary Borger's book "Presentations", he details a system consisting of a fixed leader butt about 6 or 7 feet long, and just changing/adjusting tippet as the need arises.

BB


That's what I do - Borger Uni-Body leader. The system is outlined here: http://www.garyborger.com/2012/05/09/un ... le-leader/

It doesn't cast as well as a more subtly tapered leader, but onstream I just like its versatility, which adds up to more time with my fly in the water.

I'm wanting to try furled leaders this season, tho. Just for something new.


When I buy a new fly line, l mate it with a suitably-sized furled leader about 7' and leave it alone unless the setup gets damaged during use. When I go fishing, all I need to concern myself with setting up on stream is the tippet for the first cast.

I heartily recommend furled leaders, you won't go back. Look up Zen Outfitters, Jaime makes wonderful leaders.

BB


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DIY leaders
Post 25 Jan 2017, 06:51 • #15 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 08/25/08
Posts: 1526
Location: Delton, MI
I have tried furled leaders. They cast very well but find them only effective for dry fly fly fishing and even then they spray a lot of water. I think one of the other reasons folks like furled leaders is the use of tippet rings which can be used on any leader. My leader formulas show where to tie tippet rings in. In addition, if you muck up a furled leader, you've lost a lot of money. They aren't cheap. Mine are all less than twenty cents each.


Last edited by CrustyBugger on 25 Jan 2017, 09:03, edited 1 time in total.

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DIY leaders
Post 25 Jan 2017, 09:35 • #16 
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Joined: 08/25/08
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Location: Delton, MI
MMckenzie, I guess I'll have to do a video or slide show when I do the same for the Bufflehead fly! In the meantime let me give you a tip. If you can tie an Albright knot, you can tie the SOLIS knot. Start tying an Albright, but instead of 10 turns or more, stop at the third turn then finish the rest of the knot as shown in the diagram above. Let me know if that helps. The trick is in how to hold the sections. You should be able to find a video on line. I hold mine differently and it goes super quick so I'll eventually show how I do it in a video or picture (But I do give some clues how I hold it in the diagram above. Look closely). Even the Albright is not infallible and can come apart with slippery material or after multiple casts. If you finish an Albright like I finish the SOLIS though, it will never come apart. But then you wouldn't need so many freaking turns either. You can tie the SOLIS with far fewer turns than an Albright. You can also tie a SOLIS with fewer than 3 turns but it's stronger with a third turn. You can tie it with more turns if you want. It will get ever so slightly stronger but with quickly diminishing returns and become more slip resistant but the knot also gets bigger. I have found a three turn SOLIS to be just about right.

CrustyBugger


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Re: DIY leaders
Post 25 Jan 2017, 13:22 • #17 
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Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1784
Location: urban Colorado
my blood and surgeons' knots are no longer reliable although I've been tying them for forty-plus years.. switched to ligature knot for joining leaders. I'll try out the SOLIS knot, thanks Crusty..

I found Gary Borger's leader system compelling so will be trying a variant of it this year, based on a store-bought tapered leader with a tippet ring. I can still tie a clinch or San Diego Jam knot reliably, so this will eliminate the knots I can't tie.


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Re: DIY leaders
Post 25 Jan 2017, 13:51 • #18 
Master Guide
Joined: 12/23/15
Posts: 654
Location: Texas bound
Crusty - I just saw the photos - didn't see them when I first viewed your post about them. Looks pretty easy - like there's a cross section at the bottom (bend) end of the knot, rather than a simple wrap? And instead of trapping the tag, it goes parallel to the standing part of the line?


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DIY leaders
Post 25 Jan 2017, 13:58 • #19 
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Joined: 08/25/08
Posts: 1526
Location: Delton, MI
Yup, that cross section is basically a half hitch. Just look closely where the cross overs and unders are. I tried all kinds of variations but this was the best combination of strength, knot locking, size, maintaining a nice shape for going through the guides, and keeping the exiting sections nice, straight, and in line with each other..


Last edited by CrustyBugger on 25 Jan 2017, 14:30, edited 3 times in total.

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DIY leaders
Post 25 Jan 2017, 16:31 • #20 
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Joined: 08/25/08
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Location: Delton, MI
Doug, it may not be your knot tying skills causing trouble. It coud be the leader material. It's one of the reasons I decided to design my own knot. Some knots are helped immensely by small diameter changes in the material. Materials are now getting very consistent in diameter. That and the lubricants they add can cause knots to slip. It depends on the manufacturer. Sufix can be very slippery and blood knots with extra turns won't hold it. My knot won't slip. But for on stream use, I'd try the Orvis tippet knot to replace your Surgeon's knot. If it still slips, try the Seaguar knot. They are both easy to tie with a hemostat, even with gloves on.

I liked the Borger system and tried his approach but tying a 2 section leader to carry and then have to tie three knots on the stream seemed silly to me. I'd rather spend my time tying knots to build a leader at home than on the stream. That's why I embarked on the above leader system. If you study my leader system, you will find that my leaders take on aspects of Humphrey, Borger, the Czech's, and things I've learned over the years. I would recommend starting with my 9 ft VersaLeader. It only has 4 sections which is 3 connector knots but can be used right away as an easy turnover 9ft 4x dry fly leader or nymph leader all by itself. To go finer, just cut off a foot of 4x and add 2ft of 5x or 6x. To turn it into a slackline dry fly leader or Czech nymphing leader, just insert 2ft of 2x between the 0x and 4x for an 11ft leader. To turn it into a streamer leader, cut off the 4x and use it as a 6.5ft 0x leader or add back 2ft of 2x for a 9ft 2x leader. To turn it into a diving leader, cut out the .016"/.011" section and use that as a 2 to 3ft leader. It's length is also easily reduced because there is at least 2.5ft in the butt section to reduce or remove down to a 6.5 ft leader. For a longer leader, just insert .020" to any length you want. When you build it at home, it's ready to go on the stream as a good 9ft 4x dry fly turnover leader or nymphing leader, no fuss, no muss. It is extremely versatile. For dry fly purists, I recommend the Slack line dry fly leader. It will improve your drag free drifts immensely and can be easily changed to other tippet sizes very quickly with equal performance. And all of my leaders are superior to knotless leaders in very useful and important way. As you use up material on a knotless leader, you have no idea what diameter it's at unless you carry a micrometer. With my system, you always know. It's easy to remember because the few jumps from one diameter to the next are on each of the leaders. If you have to rebuild one of my leaders, it becomes intuitive what to do.


Last edited by CrustyBugger on 27 Jan 2017, 07:02, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: DIY leaders
Post 26 Jan 2017, 09:17 • #21 
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Joined: 09/29/08
Posts: 435
Location: US-NJ
Great discussion - I like Borger's leaders and and the George Harvey slack line leaders, which influenced the other guys. That spreadsheet is a good one, thanks Crusty. Borger's simplified leaders really help knocking out leaders.

As to where to put loops and tippets, I tend to bring a bunch of complete leaders on a trip since I fish all day and prefer putting all new leaders on (especially when I have traveled far to a special place), but tend to use loops for the tippet nearer to home. If I'm only fishing the evening hatch changing tippets is easier for me.

My only other comment is that I like either Maxima or some old Silver Line copolymer spools for the stiff sections and Orvis Super Strong for the tippets.


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Re: DIY leaders
Post 26 Jan 2017, 10:42 • #22 
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Joined: 02/26/14
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Location: US-MN
I used Gary's Borger's simplified Harvey leader last year and it worked great for me.

http://www.garyborger.com/harvey-style-leader/


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Re: DIY leaders
Post 26 Jan 2017, 11:55 • #23 
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Joined: 04/02/13
Posts: 1173
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Here's the best I can break down the SOLIS knot into each step.. hopefully I got it right. I haven't tried tying one yet.

Image

(Edited per CrustyBugger's comment.)


Last edited by JoeFriday on 26 Jan 2017, 13:12, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: DIY leaders
Post 26 Jan 2017, 12:14 • #24 
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Joined: 08/25/08
Posts: 1526
Location: Delton, MI
WOW,WOW,WOW!!! that is so COOL, JoeFriday! How'd you do that? I love it. It's not quite correct though. On the third wrap you go over the loop to complete the third turn then come back under on the return. You then go over the third wrap, not under Does that make sense?


Last edited by CrustyBugger on 26 Jan 2017, 12:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DIY leaders
Post 26 Jan 2017, 12:23 • #25 
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Joined: 06/21/06
Posts: 3080
Location: Orygun
Driftless wrote:
I used Gary's Borger's simplified Harvey leader last year and it worked great for me.

http://www.garyborger.com/harvey-style-leader/


That's pretty much what I've often done (loosely), especially if I have to do things on stream.


That spreadsheet...nice.


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