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Post 07 Sep 2018, 16:31 • #1 
Sport
Joined: 01/06/17
Posts: 63
Location: US-OH
A few years back I purchased an Anglers Roost 12' 4pc 7/8 wt Spey blank. I have been doing some modifications to the rod as I recently began to build it up for the coming steelhead season. For starters I cut off 3" off the tip. They have a very tippy action that I honestly don't like too much. I like a parabolic flex. And I want a sub 12 footer!

Anyways, two nights ago, in an attempt to stiffen the tip, i filled it with some epoxy. It didn't flow evenly from end to end, so I ended up sticking a couple 12" chunks of music wire to try to spread it out. A few of them became stuck and glued in. I just said screw it and began swinging the rod around testing the flex. The tip was VERY heavy, but it stiffened up the tip beautifully.It was TOO heavy, with 3 pieces of wire in it. I think my endeavors would have been successful with just the epoxy but there was no way it would flow all the way into the tiny tip. During testing the tip broke in two where one of the wires ended....Soooo now I have a new blank coming in the mail any day now. I am not sure on what I should do? Fill the tip with spar? Or coat the the inside? Fill the tip with expanding foam or whatever? Will it go all the was into the tippy tip? Dip the tip similar to bamboo rods?

Let me know some past experiences on how you stiffened up a section.

Nick


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Post 07 Sep 2018, 18:21 • #2 
Sport
Joined: 09/06/18
Posts: 61
Location: The Appalachian Mountains of WV/PA
Hello,

I have never attempted to stiffen up a tip of a rod but wonder if the best course is a different blank altogether.


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Post 07 Sep 2018, 18:26 • #3 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/27/14
Posts: 1501
Location: ON, Canada
I would think that the best way to stiffen a blank section would be to insert a graphite stent, since graphite has such a high stiffness-to-weight ratio.


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Post 07 Sep 2018, 18:44 • #4 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/24/12
Posts: 456
Location: US-MI
Never tried it, but I was thinking what brockton wrote. How long is the tip section of the new blank? I might have a spare graphite tip section that you could try.


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Post 07 Sep 2018, 18:50 • #5 
Sport
Joined: 01/06/17
Posts: 63
Location: US-OH
I would think about getting a new blank but I really like this rod other than the action. I can’t get fiberglass off my mind and there aren’t many options. Plus I already turned a beautiful cork grip for the rod.
I am going to do some tests with other blanks and expanding foam and spar varnish. I will keep everyone updated once the new blank gets here.

Nick


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Post 07 Sep 2018, 18:53 • #6 
Sport
Joined: 01/06/17
Posts: 63
Location: US-OH
mdraft1 wrote:
Never tried it, but I was thinking what brockton wrote. How long is the tip section of the new blank? I might have a spare graphite tip section that you could try.

The tip is 21” long. If you send me a something I will sand it down and try to get a good fit. I talked to Anglers roost and attempted to get two tips and insert one into the other, but I would have to pay for two entire blanks.


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Post 07 Sep 2018, 18:56 • #7 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/24/12
Posts: 456
Location: US-MI
PM sent.


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Post 07 Sep 2018, 19:16 • #8 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/04/12
Posts: 705
Location: SE Pa
Hardys wrote:
Hello,

I have never attempted to stiffen up a tip of a rod but wonder if the best course is a different blank altogether.

+1


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Post 07 Sep 2018, 19:46 • #9 
Inactive
Joined: 02/16/14
Posts: 618
Location: Roanoke, VA
I've done some questionable experimenting. But I've never disclosed it or asked for an opinion on it. Silent failure. Loud successes. Rock on, Garth. Good luck.


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Post 08 Sep 2018, 05:19 • #10 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
Experimentation is fun, but there are limitations inherent in the material for the experiment. Minor changes in continuity: number and placement of guides along the tip. Minor changes in continuity: short (no longer than a ferrule) stents at strategic locations. If you stiffen the tip with much more than that, you will be "softening" the section below it--not really, but disrupting the load distribution into the unchanged portion of the blank. Cutting the tip back does not stiffen it; it only removes it.

Any changes made need to be evaluated with the entire rod assembled and cast or at least flex tested with a load. What the tip does alone isn't necessarily going to show what it will act like assembled and in use.

If you want a parabolic action, it might be better to look at the wall thickness of the lower section to see if it would allow strategic sanding to soften it.

But, honestly, the blank just doesn't seem suitable for what is wanted, other than a fun experiment.


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Post 08 Sep 2018, 09:01 • #11 
Sport
Joined: 01/06/17
Posts: 63
Location: US-OH
I am not afraid to experiment. Especially when I don't have many options as it is. I have thought about turning a blank on my lathe from Ipe or Hickory and developing my own taper.

The rod is very flexible, down into the handle, it is just that the tip is very soft, and takes much of the flex. Stiffer tip, more load is pushed farther down into the blank. Even if the rod becomes a more progressive action, I would be happy. I am somewhat surprised at the amount of discouragement. I honestly can't afford a Epic blank, especially with Steelhead season right around the corner. I think a Hardy glass blank in the 10-12' range would be interesting, but who has one of those laying around?

Nick


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Post 08 Sep 2018, 09:23 • #12 
Inactive
Joined: 06/01/14
Posts: 190
Location: Pennsylvania
I have a Hardy 10'6" Invincible 7wt laying around.

Not a blank but could be stripped


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Post 08 Sep 2018, 13:32 • #13 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4966
Location: US-MT
"I would think about getting a new blank but I really like this rod other than the action." this is kind of an oxymoron...... how can you like a rod other than the action?? But best of luck to you. And you will stiffen by removing some from the tip.


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Post 08 Sep 2018, 21:38 • #14 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2498
Location: South of Joplin
Would a coat of fiberglass resin applied over the length in question stiffen it or just add weight?
(I'm thinking adding wall thickness will stiffen it, just sanding it might soften it. The resin would bond better and cure stiffer than varnish)


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Post 08 Sep 2018, 23:36 • #15 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/22/07
Posts: 871
Location: Out West
While this would not necessarily stiffen many blanks that much, if the blank has a very pronounced spline/spine (stiffer axis), placing the guides on the spline instead of 180 degrees off the spline (the "norm" for many builders) can stiffen it up somewhat.

This can make quite a difference on some blanks...especially on the upper third or half. Just a thought.

As previously mentioned, taking off some length from the tip or adding stints could be interesting to experiment with. Also, some of the pioneer rod designers have used foam inside various parts of a blank to achieve a desired flex/action...I have no idea what kind of foam would be good for this application, or if it would be any easier to work with than the epoxy you already tried.


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Post 09 Sep 2018, 07:43 • #16 
Master Guide
Joined: 08/29/09
Posts: 512
Location: 2 hrs from all good things Northern Californian
an FF79 I was given was broken between the top two snake guides. The break was fairly clean so I hand tapered a very willowy piece of fiberglass from a toy store kite to basically become a spigot ferrule. Once I was satisfied with the fit I taped it and gave it a cast. It seemed fine so I glued it up and gave it a wrap. I was very happy with the results, I would guess it to perform close to the FF805.


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Post 09 Sep 2018, 08:11 • #17 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/27/14
Posts: 1501
Location: ON, Canada
If you can find a tip section from a heavier rod (like an 8/9 or 9/10) of similar length, you might be able to ferrule it together with the bottom sections of the blank you have.

I’d suggest you call Steve Godshall - he knows the ARE blanks well and might have ideas for you. I know he’s don’t customizations of the kind you’re talking about with the ARE glass blanks. I can get you his # if you want.


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Post 09 Sep 2018, 10:37 • #18 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 09/22/09
Posts: 1494
Location: Sweden
Balsa wood is an excellent material for internal tuning inserts. It weights nothing and counteracts the ovalizing you get when you stress the blank.

Rod tuning is great fun, and can be very rewarding!

Good luck,
Christian


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Post 09 Sep 2018, 15:52 • #19 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/12
Posts: 1778
Location: Dubois Pa
Also just a 3" piece of stent will stiffen a much larger area. You can put a string though it and pull it back out until you like it's placement.

Bob


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Post 09 Sep 2018, 17:04 • #20 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/24/11
Posts: 1144
Location: Belgium
Adding some glass fibers would work and for this you would have to get a very thin pultruded glass rod that you could push and cement into the tip section after you sanded it to match the internal taper. A thin diameter tapered hollow tube (basically a tip section of a lighter, thinner rod) would be lighter and might give a better action but that's up to your judgement and you could try either solution in a dry run. Especially in the case of the hollow blank insert you could tune the stiffness by sanding down the wall thickness. All in all a lot of experimenting with no guarantee of finding a result you like but you might have fun with it. The pultruded glass rod will be super cheap, a tapered hollow blank might not be unless you find a broken tip that works for you.

Don't fill the blank with epoxy resin or worse spar - that's not core material.

As Christian says balsa is excellent core material but it may not be easy to use in a thin tip and it might not stiffen up the tip sufficiently. If you do use balsa make sure it's bonded and sealed with epoxy otherwise it could absorb water, become heavy and rot.


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Post 09 Sep 2018, 20:54 • #21 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/09/13
Posts: 637
Location: US-TX
I don't know if this will work for you,but I bought several cheap "tenkara" rods off ebay or. amazon for $3 or $4 a piece. The tips are solid and I have used them for stint material to repair fly rod tip sections. Maybe sand it to size & epoxy it into the tip section to stiffin the tip section?


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Post 10 Sep 2018, 12:28 • #22 
Guide
Joined: 12/16/15
Posts: 135
Location: MSP
If you fill a rod tip with epoxy, heat the tip with a heat gun to drive the air out and reduce the epoxy viscosity. It will flow a LOT better, especially if you use a really slow cure and repeat the process a few times to work the lingering bubble out as best you can.


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Post 10 Sep 2018, 16:27 • #23 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/04/12
Posts: 705
Location: SE Pa
You could fill all the sections with water and then seal them off. It may result in a very fluid action.


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Post 12 Sep 2018, 09:59 • #24 
Sport
Joined: 01/06/17
Posts: 63
Location: US-OH
Thank you all for the ideas, here is what I have gathered so far, although its not much.

Filling a section with epoxy will make it sag and take a set very quickly. I also bought a can of that clear liquid rubber and filled a tip of a 8' 4wt graphite rod and it definitely stiffened up the tip without any issues.

I have some old solid fiberglass ice fishing stick rods that I might try to sand down to fit the rod. I think I'll give this a go before pumping in liquid rubber. The liquid rubber seems pretty promising though.

Nick


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Post 12 Sep 2018, 10:45 • #25 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/12/18
Posts: 457
I think if I was going to experiment with stiffening a tip section, I'd try inserting various carbon fiber rods or tubes. There are lots of very small diameters available... I used to build a lot of R/C airplanes and used thin carbon and rods and tubes frequently.

Tight lines,
Bob


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