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Post 30 Nov 2017, 10:25 • #1 
Sport
Joined: 08/31/17
Posts: 39
Location: US-LA
I got a surprise when I applied the finish to the wheat colored thread wraps that contrasted so nicely with the Lamiglas Honey blank. I guess I have done my first clear wraps by accident. I'm having a difficult time cutting the thread tags without leaving a bur. When I fray the tags and burn them off with an alcohol torch, there is still a bur. Also, I'm having mixed success with the epoxy finish laying down as smooth as I would like. Sometimes it flows out really smooth other times it's less perfect than I would like. Not sure if there is an occasional air bubble getting trapped. I have been using ProKote epoxy and the brushes I am using are not extremely soft. Not sure if this is part of the problem or not. So.....

Should I try a different epoxy?
I'd love some ideas on how to get a cleaner cut of the tag ends?
Once a coat of finish is on, can anything be done to fix a bur or imperfection?
Should I use good quality brushes and if so, is it worth it to clean them rather than discard them?

Image


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Post 30 Nov 2017, 11:19 • #2 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/12/16
Posts: 4106
Location: USA-CO
Your epoxy looks as good as anything I could manage -- one reason I switched to varnish. I never could get the stuff to level, despite claims by all suppliers about "Self-leveling." Other builders on the board, and especially the master builders, achieve perfect results with epoxy, so they'll have advice for you.

I struggle with trim as well. It's a matter of laying the blade flat against the wrap, and perpendicular to the tag such that when you pull the tag against the blade, the cut is clean and the remaining tag minimal. Too often when I pull, the tag moves the blade but doesn't cut. This is with sharp blades. Then, I'm in recovery mode to avoid completely redoing the wrap. I just finished wrapping a Steffen, and I got good results -- not perfect, but I'm getting better as I go. You will too. I've stopped worrying about a few protruding ends, as long as they're not gross.


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Post 30 Nov 2017, 11:27 • #3 
Guide
Joined: 10/30/14
Posts: 326
Location: Cayuga, Ontario, Canada
What are you using to cut your tag ends?

My process is to use a double-edge razor, which I lay flat on the wrap and slide through the tag end. Make sure it's a sharp razor so that it takes no effort to cut, if you need to saw at the thread or push the razor is dull and will cause you grief. Cutting like this should prevent a burr from happening, but if something is still visible I then work it under the wrap using a burnishing tool. No flame needed.


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Post 30 Nov 2017, 11:28 • #4 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/12/07
Posts: 1296
Location: western Massachusetts
Your wraps look great. Remember that ProKote is Not a lite epoxy so you have to be careful how much you put on at one time. I find that plain throw-away nylon brushes work fine with it. Strive for a first thin coat, then before you put the second coat on, trim the fuzzies with a warm xacto knife, then apply the thin second coat.

That's the first invisible wrap Lami I have ever seen-looks really cool. Just walk away from the wraps, and then take it fishing.


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Post 30 Nov 2017, 11:59 • #5 
Sport
Joined: 08/31/17
Posts: 39
Location: US-LA
Tom S wrote:
What are you using to cut your tag ends?

My process is to use a double-edge razor, which I lay flat on the wrap and slide through the tag end. Make sure it's a sharp razor so that it takes no effort to cut, if you need to saw at the thread or push the razor is dull and will cause you grief. Cutting like this should prevent a burr from happening, but if something is still visible I then work it under the wrap using a burnishing tool. No flame needed.


Single edge razor blades. They are a hardware chain brand and I am curious if the sharpness is as good as a better name brand. I'll try some double edged blades.


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Post 30 Nov 2017, 12:04 • #6 
Sport
Joined: 08/31/17
Posts: 39
Location: US-LA
archfly wrote:
Your wraps look great. Remember that ProKote is Not a lite epoxy so you have to be careful how much you put on at one time. I find that plain throw-away nylon brushes work fine with it. Strive for a first thin coat, then before you put the second coat on, trim the fuzzies with a warm xacto knife, then apply the thin second coat.

That's the first invisible wrap Lami I have ever seen-looks really cool. Just walk away from the wraps, and then take it fishing.


I wasn't trying for invisible wraps. It looks pretty good, but wasn't what I intended. That wrap and epoxy is actually pretty good. A few of the others not so much. I'll post pics when I finish the rod. I went ahead and applied finish to the but for fear the wraps and/or trim bands would get screwed up. Still wrapping the tip section.


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Post 30 Nov 2017, 12:44 • #7 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 01/02/12
Posts: 1861
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
I agree that your finish looks good. If worried about tag ends, cut the thread just before you pull the thread under the wrapped thread. Catch it with with one or two turns of thread, then cut it short enough that when pulled under the wrapped thread, no tag end comes out. As for epoxy, I use ThreadMaster lite. Seems to work for me but pretty much switching to varnish. Roy


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Post 30 Nov 2017, 14:11 • #8 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8931
Location: US-ME
Although you use a brush, don't brush. Spread. What you have shown looks great.


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Post 30 Nov 2017, 15:20 • #9 
Guide
Joined: 10/30/14
Posts: 326
Location: Cayuga, Ontario, Canada
archfly wrote:
Your wraps look great. Remember that ProKote is Not a lite epoxy so you have to be careful how much you put on at one time. I find that plain throw-away nylon brushes work fine with it. Strive for a first thin coat, then before you put the second coat on, trim the fuzzies with a warm xacto knife, then apply the thin second coat.

That's the first invisible wrap Lami I have ever seen-looks really cool. Just walk away from the wraps, and then take it fishing.


Single edge blades are to thick and not sharp enough. They're made for cutting cardboard and scraping paint.

I think of it like this - you're more likely to hurt yourself with a dull knife than a sharp knife because you end up forcing the knife to cut rather than naturally allowing it to work. With a super-sharp double edged razor blade you can cut closer and have less chance of damaging the wrap because it cuts so smoothly.


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Post 30 Nov 2017, 15:32 • #10 
Sport
Joined: 08/31/17
Posts: 39
Location: US-LA
whrlpool wrote:
Although you use a brush, don't brush. Spread. What you have shown looks great.

I have been holding the brush against the wraps while the rod is rotated by the rod dryer. I change the angle and skew the brush to direct the epoxy across the wrap. Not sure if this is the best way. I’m seriously considering using Spar Varnish on the next one.


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Post 30 Nov 2017, 18:22 • #11 
Master Guide
Joined: 06/27/11
Posts: 388
Location: US-OH
The double edge blades are what I use as well. Feather brand from Japan. Probably others that work as well.


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Post 30 Nov 2017, 22:38 • #12 
Guide
Joined: 11/23/14
Posts: 194
Location: US-TX
Ditto on Roy's tag end technique. No razor necessary. Little scissors are all you need. As for flowing the epoxy, I've only ever built with Flexcoat Lite and regular. Never have thinned it but I've had good luck heating it up. Even warmer than recommended. Nuke a little bowl of water and put the bottles in for a few minutes then mix it up. Flows and levels nicely if thin. Just do one extra coat if necessary.


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Post 01 Dec 2017, 07:20 • #13 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8931
Location: US-ME
Here is an old tutorial on the method retiredfisher describes. I still haven't got around to restoring my pics but the workaround enables some to see them. viewtopic.php?p=97563#p97563


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Post 01 Dec 2017, 08:22 • #14 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/10/09
Posts: 1655
Location: US-OH
I don't think it was mentioned above, but you can do two thin coats, one day apart. Before doing the second coat, use a double edged razor blade to trim level all bumps, including tag ends that weren't trimmed as flat as you would have liked. The second thin coat will then cover perfectly, bump free. One tip about using these blades: I use sheet metal shears to make two diagonal cuts across a blade that yields 4 triangular blades similar in shape to an exacto blade. You can then hold them in an exacto handle. These blades dull fairly quickly so change them out as needed.


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Post 01 Dec 2017, 08:49 • #15 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/12/16
Posts: 4106
Location: USA-CO
tiptop wrote:
I don't think it was mentioned above, but you can do two thin coats, one day apart. Before doing the second coat, use a double edged razor blade to trim level all bumps, including tag ends that weren't trimmed as flat as you would have liked. The second thin coat will then cover perfectly, bump free. One tip about using these blades: I use sheet metal shears to make two diagonal cuts across a blade that yields 4 triangular blades similar in shape to an exacto blade. You can then hold them in an exacto handle. These blades dull fairly quickly so change them out as needed.


That's a good tip on cutting the blades, thanks. If I tried to use a double-edged blade freehand I'd be long dead from blood loss.


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Post 01 Dec 2017, 12:03 • #16 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4971
Location: US-MT
Like was said above, blades dull surprisingly fast. Fresh, sharp blades won't leave a tag.


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Post 01 Dec 2017, 12:12 • #17 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/05/10
Posts: 5229
Location: Mid Hudson Valley of New York
Tomah wrote:
tiptop wrote:
I don't think it was mentioned above, but you can do two thin coats, one day apart. Before doing the second coat, use a double edged razor blade to trim level all bumps, including tag ends that weren't trimmed as flat as you would have liked. The second thin coat will then cover perfectly, bump free. One tip about using these blades: I use sheet metal shears to make two diagonal cuts across a blade that yields 4 triangular blades similar in shape to an exacto blade. You can then hold them in an exacto handle. These blades dull fairly quickly so change them out as needed.


That's a good tip on cutting the blades, thanks. If I tried to use a double-edged blade freehand I'd be long dead from blood loss.


great idea Tom. i tried an xacto knife but switched to double edge blades because the xacto blades just didnt "cut it." right out of the package i find xacto blades dull-- or not nearly as sharp as razor blades. great tip. gonna try this.


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Post 01 Dec 2017, 15:27 • #18 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1786
Location: urban Colorado
for the tags - I use retiredfisher and whrlpool's method. The key is a sharp snap pull when pulling the loop through. A slow pull or slight looseness in the wraps, and the cut-off tag will suddenly be long enough to appear in your wraps..

for imperfections in epoxy finish - use 1500grit sandpaper and linseed oil to smooth out, then give it a coat of spar varnish ;-)

I've switched to spar varnish entirely, it takes a little longer to put on the 3-4 coats, but it's simpler to get a decent finish that way. Plus, more time to put on the extra coats, is basically just more playtime.. ha.


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Post 01 Dec 2017, 15:55 • #19 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/05/10
Posts: 5229
Location: Mid Hudson Valley of New York
doug in co wrote:
for imperfections in epoxy finish - use 1500grit sandpaper and linseed oil to smooth out, then give it a coat of spar varnish ;-)


i use the nail files from the beauty supply store...they are four-sided with very fine grit from smooth out to polish, and buff. be careful you dont go too deep or you will catch the thread. only the slightest pressure is needed to buff out surface imperfections in varnish.


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Post 01 Dec 2017, 17:23 • #20 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/12/16
Posts: 4106
Location: USA-CO
picketpin52 wrote:
doug in co wrote:
for imperfections in epoxy finish - use 1500grit sandpaper and linseed oil to smooth out, then give it a coat of spar varnish ;-)


i use the nail files from the beauty supply store...they are four-sided with very fine grit from smooth out to polish, and buff. be careful you dont go too deep or you will catch the thread. only the slightest pressure is needed to buff out surface imperfections in varnish.


Sally Beauty Supply is a key rodbuilding-supplies store for me: cuticle pushers for thread packing, emery boards for deburring and smoothing guide feet, the tight-wound, pointed cotton swabs for removing stray varnish, CP, etc. -- all are useful aids in the hobby. Now, I'll look for the ultra-fine nail files. Thanks, Doug and picketpin!


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