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Post 28 Oct 2017, 21:40 • #1 
Sport
Joined: 10/23/17
Posts: 48
Location: US-MN
Hey All,

What are your thoughts on using single foot versus snake guides on a fiberglass build?

Thanks


Last edited by Zinny on 29 Oct 2017, 11:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 29 Oct 2017, 11:35 • #2 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 01/02/12
Posts: 1859
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
I really can’t say if there is any difference in terms of line passing through either. I do not believe there is much weight benefit in using single foot. From an aesthetic and very biased point of view, I think snake guides are vastly better looking.


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Post 29 Oct 2017, 12:45 • #3 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/24/11
Posts: 1144
Location: Belgium
Generally I have to agree that snakes look better on a classic build but I've seen some pretty rods with single foot guides as well.

This is a Harada built Alchemy Dharma: https://www.vintageflytackle.com/products/harada-katsumi-alchemy-dharma-75-4-5wt-4-pc-fiberglass-rod

Regarding performance I think snakes might allow for more shoot but single foot guides are a little lighter which in most cases will improve action. There isn't much in it. I for one would like to see more glass builds with single foot guides - not because I like them better but just for variety.


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Post 29 Oct 2017, 14:15 • #4 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/22/11
Posts: 1720
Location: US-TX
A single foot wire guide will weigh the same as a wire snake guide. Single foot insert guides weigh more but not noticeable, at least by me. Less wraps with a single foot. Not wrapping on both ends of a guide will reduce change to rod action. I found single foot shoots better but snake allows line knots to pass better especially stringing up the rod. Single foot guides will reduce line from “sticking” to the blank.

Single foot obviously takes shorter time to finish wrapping threads. If you are rough on your rod the snakes are better in not getting flattened. I have not had a problem with single foot guides coming out of the wraps.

Those are my observations in building with both. If one is okay with a single foot not being “traditional” then imo, single foot is the way to go.


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Post 29 Oct 2017, 18:05 • #5 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/08/05
Posts: 3570
Location: Western PA
If single foot guides are faster to wrap, why do most rod manufacturers use snakes?


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Post 29 Oct 2017, 18:52 • #6 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
I have no use for single foot guides, except, perhaps, an insert type as a stripping guide. You couldn't give me a fly rod with round single foot guides because I never "throw" bulky/heavy "fly" rigs or complex shooting systems where round guides might be an advantage. It really isn't that important, but if you are just casting a fly line across the standard range of casts in which the fly merely goes along for the ride, there is a reason snake guides are preferred: more precise line control is inherent in their shape, and not just for casting but in manipulating the fly line in mends, retrieves, and so on. viewtopic.php?p=201788#p201788 The simplest way to see if it matters to you is to build a couple rods on identical inexpensive blanks, one with snakes, the other with single foot. You will have two usable rods, but I think I know which you will prefer to fish, reserving the other as a backup or loaner--or a future refit.


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Post 29 Oct 2017, 19:18 • #7 
Sport
Joined: 10/23/17
Posts: 48
Location: US-MN
Yeah, I just think they look pretty cool and give the rod a unique look.


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Post 29 Oct 2017, 19:56 • #8 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/12/16
Posts: 4093
Location: USA-CO
retiredfisher1 wrote:
I really can’t say if there is any difference in terms of line passing through either. I do not believe there is much weight benefit in using single foot. From an aesthetic and very biased point of view, I think snake guides are vastly better looking.


+1. I built my first rod using single-foot guides in order to cut the opportunity for error in half -- no other reason. I've since rebuilt the rod with snakes, and can now sleep at night. ;-)


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Post 31 Oct 2017, 09:50 • #9 
Sport
Joined: 03/04/14
Posts: 63
Location: US-CO
I'm building my first rod using single foot wire, non insert guides now just to see how i like it. I thought it actually took longer to wrap as a it was more work getting the guide positioned right and thread wraps on it, versus wrapping a snake guide that you can put a piece of painters tape on the opposite foot you are wrapping.

I am also a little nervous about the longevity of the guides getting bent/broken as this is going to be a boat and truck rod that will get a fair amount of use. Time shall tell.


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Post 31 Oct 2017, 12:10 • #10 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/25/09
Posts: 2319
snake guides, i think single footers are for the bigger graphite production companies to claim they've reduced weight and shoot line better, etc...


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Post 31 Oct 2017, 12:16 • #11 
Guide
Joined: 02/13/16
Posts: 326
Location: US-TX
Not specific to glass, but I prefer the ability of snakes to slip through brush and tangles without catching like single foots do. Luckily I also like the way they look better.


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Post 02 Nov 2017, 07:12 • #12 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/08/05
Posts: 3570
Location: Western PA
Most rods are wrapped with snakes because they're superior to single foot guides. Phil at Kettle Creek Fishing uses snakes and also uses 2/0 single foot guides...for hook keepers. IMO, that's the only thing they're good for.


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Post 02 Nov 2017, 10:16 • #13 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/24/12
Posts: 456
Location: US-MI
I prefer snake guides on my rods. They look good and I like the durability of both sides of the guide being secured to the blank.


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Post 02 Nov 2017, 23:12 • #14 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1784
Location: urban Colorado
for me the single-foot ceramics shoot noticeably better than most snakes with no other penalty.
The exception is Snake Brand, which are the only snake guides I use now. Cane, light graphite and light glass (5wt and under) get Snake Brand. Everything else is single-foot ceramic. I've broken one in thirty years, and that was an off-brand budget one which I may have abused.

This Heddon Hedliner rebuild got single-foots, though not visible in the pic, very happy with it..

Image


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Post 03 Nov 2017, 00:33 • #15 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/21/13
Posts: 704
Location: Perth, Western Australia
I guess the next thread will be about left hand wind versus right hand wind.


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Post 05 Nov 2017, 09:37 • #16 
Guide
Joined: 11/23/14
Posts: 194
Location: US-TX
I have built and fished with both styles like, I'm sure most have. I have found the single foot guides to be more "grabby" of slack line and when the fly is removed from the hook keeper. Especially late in the day when you're tired and get a little more lazy / sloppy with your line. With double foot snakes, line around the rod just slides right off.


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Post 08 Nov 2017, 13:03 • #17 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/25/16
Posts: 1069
Location: Rocky Mountains - Colorado
I prefer the look of a rod with snake guides. That said, I have two rods with single foot guides, my first rod, a "Lews" graphite and most recently a Phillipson 3 piece P86B from the late 50s early 60s. Both came to me with single foot guides. The Phillipson is just a cool old rod.


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Post 09 Nov 2017, 13:55 • #18 
Guide
Joined: 05/02/13
Posts: 213
Location: Almonte, ON, Canada
Image

I use both, and took the effort to measure, analyze and compare. From this data and tests, including sing a couple of blanks with different builds, I develop MY preference.

You can use this data to help make your decision, but it will not address opinion or your view of aesthetics. It provides some facts, which will unfortunately disagree with some statements.

https://raspberryfisher.wordpress.com/c ... -building/

Image


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Post 09 Nov 2017, 16:09 • #19 
Sport
Joined: 10/23/17
Posts: 48
Location: US-MN
"I was under the impression............there would be no math."


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Post 09 Nov 2017, 17:55 • #20 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/21/13
Posts: 704
Location: Perth, Western Australia
On my own 6wt and 8wt rods, I use TLSG6 guides. Lower weights get the TLSG5, 10wt rods get the TLSG7 guides.

My choice is based purely on functionality. Aesthetics don't factor in the decision.

Cheers,
Graeme


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Post 09 Nov 2017, 19:31 • #21 
Guide
Joined: 02/26/15
Posts: 219
Location: US-north ga.
I'm a fan of single foot fugi guides.They seem to shoot line better to me and I'm convinced that there easier on fly line coating.
I'm usually fishing 6 thru 9 wgts


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Post 10 Nov 2017, 13:08 • #22 
Guide
Joined: 05/02/13
Posts: 213
Location: Almonte, ON, Canada
I will use and do use TLSGs happily for 7+wt lines, but using 6s means care need to be taken with head to leader connections to any running line et cetera, as loop to loop connections can take a lot of space.

This is not unreasonable, but a consideration.

For fiberglass, I not as much worried about weight, but one item to consider is the reduction of thread and a bridge from guide food to guide food on the bend of the rod. I have never studied this, so I cannot affirm this is real or not.

Kalgrm wrote:
On my own 6wt and 8wt rods, I use TLSG6 guides. Lower weights get the TLSG5, 10wt rods get the TLSG7 guides.

My choice is based purely on functionality. Aesthetics don't factor in the decision.

Cheers,
Graeme


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Post 10 Nov 2017, 19:29 • #23 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello
I dislike single foot guides because they get bent very easily.
When they get bent they tend to adversely effect line flow.

They tend to have less of a effect on the natural flex characteristics of the blank however.
That can be either a good or a bad thing depending on what side of the guide fence you lean.

R.E.C. RSN Recoils are my favorite guides,they flex with the blank and actually enhance the flex characteristics in most applications.
It's like adding little springs to the rod, in my opinion the guides not only shoot line like the dickens they improve a rods overall performance.

I'll use single foot guides on very rare occasions, sometimes on lower line weight rods I'll use one or 2 as the last few guides at the tip sort of as tip tamers ;) lining things up for the tip top.

Personally I dislike how they look on a rod as well, to me when I see them, my first impression is that the rod maker was too cheep or lazy to do the thread and finish work.

To each their own and all,with a little tweaking they can make a nice hook keeper.

Tight Lines And Re-Coil Double Footed Loops
Andy M :)


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Post 11 Nov 2017, 00:22 • #24 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2498
Location: South of Joplin
Snake guides are the "look" for fly rods. I redid a couple of fly rods and converted a couple miscellaneous rods to fly rods, so my expertise is limited but in every case that I used Fugi single foots my cast distance improved over the stock snakes.That may have been because the stock guides were worn? Most noticeably on an early Orvis Clearwater 5wt; changing all the guides and the tip gave me about 20' more cast and got there easier. For a mediocre caster that is much better than looking good. I have personally damaged just as many snake guides as I have single foots. With my winding and finishing looks aren't much any way. I can't prove it but I think the line clings to the rod more with snakes. I also think ceramics are easier on the lines.
In the hands of a master caster the difference might not be noticeable.


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Post 11 Nov 2017, 00:56 • #25 
Guide
Joined: 02/13/16
Posts: 326
Location: US-TX
Regarding the drag that seems to come up a lot... is there *really* more material or touchpoints for the line to interact with on a snake over a SF? Looking at the profiles, the top portion of the loop on a snake is all perpendicular to the rod, making a hoop just like a single foot. And the legs down to the feet are just like the sides of the round single foot hoop, just not in the same plane. Less contact with the rod I guess? Standoff guides definitely seem to be another ballgame since there's supposedly not rod contact (even though there's all that space between the guides...)

I am curious about the action though. Seems like snakes flex quite a bit but then they're tied at the feet so maybe they don't give as much as I would like to think.


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