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Color preserver and silk
Post 22 Sep 2017, 11:57 • #1 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/27/14
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Location: ON, Canada
I don’t use color preserver much, but recently did on two projects - the nylon came out great, but the silk (YLI 100) is blotchy. Not blotchy enough to call for a redo, but definitely not as clean as the nylon.

Is silk just inconsistent in how it reacts to color preserver or is it something I’m doing?


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Post 22 Sep 2017, 12:09 • #2 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/24/12
Posts: 456
Location: US-MI
What CP did you use?

For silk I would go with this one:

https://www.proofflyfishing.com/collect ... -preserver


Last edited by mdraft1 on 22 Sep 2017, 15:16, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 22 Sep 2017, 12:16 • #3 
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How many coats of colour preserver did you use and what brand.Flex Coat works well for me but I put 3 coats on.I find silk is usually a problem with me as well.


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Post 22 Sep 2017, 13:47 • #4 
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Location: Marble Falls, Texas
Hate CP but sometimes you gotta.

I use Al's these days, but regardless, forget about the 3 coats and go for 5 on the wraps. If you have tunnels (i.e., the space between the blank and the thread caused by the guide foot, especially the stripper) then dilute the CP 50/50 with distilled water and use a syringe to get it into the tunnels. Do this before coating the outside of the wraps. Usually it isn't necessary on guides smaller than about 2.

Yes, it is a pia, but better than rewrapping, etc. only to find blotches when you add finish.


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Post 22 Sep 2017, 20:55 • #5 
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Is it possible to soak a length of thread in CP and then let it dry before wrapping it? I'm thinking especially about trim bands--less so the amount of thread for a whole guide wrap.


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Post 23 Sep 2017, 08:12 • #6 
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i suppose you could try soaking in CP but i'd just use NCP thread -- if there is such a thing as NCP silk -- to avoid the hassle, wondering and hoping it will work.


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Post 23 Sep 2017, 21:47 • #7 
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Yeah--I'm aware of NCP thread, but I thought it was all nylon. I was curious about the silk options.

Aren't all of the nylon varieties notably thicker than silk? That would be my main concern.


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Post 24 Sep 2017, 07:01 • #8 
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GlacierRambler wrote:
Yeah--I'm aware of NCP thread, but I thought it was all nylon. I was curious about the silk options.

Aren't all of the nylon varieties notably thicker than silk? That would be my main concern.


As far as I know only nylon is available in NCP. There is a thicker silk than size A nylon. It's a size 30 used for restoring boat rods. But most modern silks are finer than nylon. I've never used CP on silk -- in fact I shy away from silk altogether -- but I know others have. Maybe a few silk afficionados will weigh in...


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Post 24 Sep 2017, 07:05 • #9 
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Use silk for its character. For stark uniform color, the best color preserver for silk is a waste basket and a spool of nylon thread, which, in parallel with the plastics revolution, is completely authentic on fiberglass fly rods.


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Post 24 Sep 2017, 09:22 • #10 
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I use nylon thread on all my fiberglass builds and nylon or silk on my bamboo. Using color preserver is something I'd rather not do, but when I do use it, it's an artist brushing lacquer. I thin it 50/50 with thinners and use 4 to 6 coats. I've had very good experience with this procedure. I have found that with complete saturation of the thread with 4 to 6 coats I don't suffer the dreaded "shimmers". Time and effort are minimal as the lacquer dries quickly, making it possible to apply multiple coats over a days time. As a result of using the CP I have found that I can use very thin varnish over the CP'd wraps with great success and a very even finish.
I happened on this lacquering process when I discovered a bottle of Gudebrods color preserver in my work shop. Opened the bottle, probably 40+ years old, too find out it was a lacquer product and started experimenting with it. Since then I have found small amounts of bottled lacquer available at artist supply stores. I have used this and my results are consistent with the original Gudebrods' product.
Respectfully rvreclus


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Post 24 Sep 2017, 10:24 • #11 
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Quote:
I use nylon thread on all my fiberglass builds and nylon or silk on my bamboo. Using color preserver is something I'd rather not do, but when I do use it, it's an artist brushing lacquer.


Sounds like a good idea. Do you know if the lacquer poses any problems for removing a guide as in a refinishing project, as might result from the lacquer bonding with rod paint?

I'm going to look for some of this lacquer and try it, as I've had a few shadowing issues as of late.


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Post 24 Sep 2017, 11:15 • #12 
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I've used both lacquer and shellac on silk but results can vary from thread color to thread color. I've found Al's to render the color closest to the untreated thread the most consistently. I find it most useful when I have fairly contrasty trim wraps.

It's worth trying different methods on the butt of your rod blank to see what provides the look you are after. The rod color under the blank will affect the appearance of a wrap, particularly with the lighter colored threads.


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Post 24 Sep 2017, 14:10 • #13 
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Tomas,
Though it's only my opinion, based on my experience using the lacquer product, I think my success is based on the fact that I thin the product 50/50.
I believe this allows the thinned lacquer to penetrate the silk thread, for total saturation by the CP in the thread. I believe this complete saturation by the thinned material, avoids the pockets where there is no penetration. This process is a building up of the CP through the application of numerous coats, allowing for fewer coats of varnish to attain a glass smooth finish. I don't see much of a color change from the wraps to thread still on the spool.
Respectfully rvreclus

As too any problems with removal of a wrap, I just redid a tip for a bamboo rod and had no problems with removal and replacement of the old wrap.


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Post 28 Sep 2017, 16:47 • #14 
Guide
Joined: 08/19/16
Posts: 314
Location: Brazil
I’ve got a few doubts about using Color Preserver and silk for wrapping guides. First of all, let me say this. So far all my limited number of builds have been with nylon or polyester (dacron) thread, but silk seems attractive to try because of the translucent effect. So, if one uses CP on silk, does that inhibit the translucence when varnish is applied?

Another concern about using silk thread is that some say it has a fuzziness that must be dealt with. In fact, my last experience using polyester thread was disappointing due to fuzziness on the thread, which did not provide a smooth finish with spar varnish. I have read that such fuzziness on silk thread can be eliminated by heating with an alcohol flame or perhaps even a candle. Have any of you done that, and if so, is it done after the guides are wrapped?

Also, what grade of silk is suitable for the lightest fly rods?

Thanks


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Post 28 Sep 2017, 19:12 • #15 
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Pete, using CP will eliminate the translucent effect--not entirely in some cases, but overall, it's gone. If you want pretty close to true translucent natural or white silk with thinned varnish or epoxy, watch out for tunnel bubbles.

A lot of fuzziness can be avoided by using a thread tensioner that doesn't involving passing the thread through a friction device (i.e., the cup and dictionary method or similar) and wrapping directly on the blank from the spool using a spring or magnetic tensioner. Quickly passing the wrap through an alcohol lamp flame will diminish fuzzies, even on nylon. Yes, after the wrap and just before you put the CP or finish on the wrap. Any dust particles--dog hair in my case--goes away as well.

With YLI thread the 50 is the heaviest, 100 the lightest. I can barely tell the difference between the two once finish is on the wrap. If I can, I use 50 for the main wrap and 100 for the trim as I can build a smaller trim with more wraps. If I recall correctly with Pearsall's it's Naples the largest and Gossamer the finest. Not sure about other brands/sizing.

Enjoy it, it isn't as difficult to work with as you may think.


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