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Component weight
Post 23 Jun 2017, 19:13 • #1 
Guide
Joined: 02/13/16
Posts: 326
Location: US-TX
Wondering how much you all normally pay attention to the weight of components on glass rods, primarily the reel seat. I immediately started trying to shave weight off in my builds (UL graphite) and kinda became obsessed with making the lightest rod I could.

I'm doing some glass rods now, mostly <3wt and <7' so far, which still makes me watch the reel seat weight. Of course, I try to pay attention to the factors that can offset the reel and seat weight (like length, # of pieces, swing weight), and I understand every blank config is different.

Just seems like a .75 oz seat on, say, a 6.5' 3wt is heavy to me but that doesn't seem like as much of an issue with glass rods for people, since I see a lot of the RL seats and Lemkes on so many. I have used a couple Struble D2-S on graphite builds but they're only black or bright aluminum finish. I did a rod with a REC cap/ring in Titanium Smoke and those are nice, just kinda pricey.


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Re: Component weight
Post 23 Jun 2017, 19:42 • #2 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 09/03/07
Posts: 2055
Location: Marble Falls, Texas
I think I spend more time with trying to find the right reel after the build than beforehand. I have, with some heavier, longer rods, added some lead weight to the butt.


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Re: Component weight
Post 23 Jun 2017, 20:50 • #3 
Guide
Joined: 01/25/13
Posts: 338
Location: Avondale Az
The Lemke's being aluminum are lighter as opposed to the Nickel silver of the RL seats


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Re: Component weight
Post 23 Jun 2017, 22:48 • #4 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/04/12
Posts: 705
Location: SE Pa
Quote:
I'm doing some glass rods now, mostly <3wt and <7' so far, which still makes me watch the reel seat weight.

To me, balance can be more important than total weight, especially with glass. Once a reel is installed, sometimes a down-locking reel seat with a wood insert can balance better than an up-locking ultra lightweight seat does. But, each to their own, so build as you like !


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Re: Component weight
Post 24 Jun 2017, 05:39 • #5 
Guide
Joined: 11/19/13
Posts: 126
Location: US-MO
I like neutral balance on my rods and total weight aft of the grip determines how it balances. So if I have a reel in mind for a particular build I select a reel seat that will give me balance with that reel (light reel seat - heavier reel, heavier reel seat - lighter reel). Or I just build with the seat I want based on cosmetics and come what may on the right reel mass. Many of my 8’ to 9’ 4, 5, 6 weights seem to end up wanting about 6 oz total aft of the grip. So 1 oz seat, 4 oz reel, roughly 1 oz line and backing for a total of 6 oz. If I want to use a 4.5 oz reel I would use a .5 oz seat to get the same balance. If I want to use a 3 oz reel like the current Orvis Battenkill I would use a heavier seat.


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Re: Component weight
Post 24 Jun 2017, 06:12 • #6 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/24/12
Posts: 456
Location: US-MI
I don't worry too much about component weight as long as the overall rod is balanced.


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Re: Component weight
Post 24 Jun 2017, 10:40 • #7 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4966
Location: US-MT
I never worry about the weight of the seat, a bit of extra weight at the butt end of rod matters little.


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Re: Component weight
Post 24 Jun 2017, 16:49 • #8 
Guide
Joined: 02/13/16
Posts: 326
Location: US-TX
That confirms my observation. Thanks for the replies, and the heads up on the Lemke being aluminum. I didn't realize they had 2 cap/ring models in aluminum.


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Re: Component weight
Post 04 Jul 2017, 17:28 • #9 
Master Guide
Joined: 11/28/15
Posts: 378
Location: US-NC
I did a TL Johnson 6'-6" 3wt. Retro blank with a cork and and ring seat. Balances nicely with an early Ross Evolution reel, size 1.

I know there's been a lot of discussion about it both pro and con, but I was taught long ago that you balance a fly rod with the reel mounted and 30' of line hanging from the tip top. Works for me.

BB


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Re: Component weight
Post 05 Jul 2017, 21:25 • #10 
Guide
Joined: 09/09/16
Posts: 153
Location: Warwick-RI
Was thinking about this as i have been buying parts for my first 3 weight. Mainly knowing that it took a redington zero to balance my 7 ft 6 wt phillipson master, i am thinking i may need a tiny battenkill 1 to balance this 6 ft 3 wt, unless matt's (proof fly fishing, mdraft1 on the board, great guy,) downlocking reel seat with wood insert weighs that much less than the old school all aluminum reel seat on my 60s vintage master


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Re: Component weight
Post 05 Jul 2017, 22:13 • #11 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/05/10
Posts: 5229
Location: Mid Hudson Valley of New York
On a short, light line rod like that i'd go with dual sliding bands, or a cap and sliding band over cork. my two cents :P


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Re: Component weight
Post 05 Jul 2017, 22:22 • #12 
Guide
Joined: 09/09/16
Posts: 153
Location: Warwick-RI
Your not the first to recommend that, i just dont trust them or like the look. Not to mention i dont like cork reel seats. This one will be either a light burl or birdseye maple. I am going to be trimming the reverse half wells grip down to make more of an orvis style superfine which may help a hair (doing this because i like super fines and cigar grips and matt's cigar looked a touch fat for what i like. I could be eating a huge helping of crow in a bit where this is my second build, but it will be interesting to see where it goes.


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Re: Component weight
Post 06 Jul 2017, 07:13 • #13 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
It is rare to have to shim a reel foot to hold well on a cork-barrel/insert seat--if the cork is shaped to stand very slightly proud of the cap and the screwlock barrel and hood. It is common to have a wood seat that looks good but lets a given reel rock or slide slightly unless the foot is shimmed.

The resilience of cork, along with its natural self-protection, makes it an ideal insert material. Once you realize how well cork insert seats work, they may look better to you.


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Re: Component weight
Post 06 Jul 2017, 10:48 • #14 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/05/10
Posts: 5229
Location: Mid Hudson Valley of New York
bottom line is it's your rod, so to each his own, but as Whirly says, no need to fear cork insert's functional properties. properly turned and fitted with hardware there is no cause for concern. cork has been used for decades to make reel seat inserts because it works.

good luck with your build and keep us posted.


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Re: Component weight
Post 06 Jul 2017, 12:54 • #15 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello
Kinda late to the topic but I'll give my opinions just the same,Balance is key to optimal performance,where the rod balances can be a personal preference,Where I like my rods to balance can differ from yours.

From my experiences Component weight plays a big factor and often makes the difference between a capable rod and an amazing rod in terms of performance.

Up lock reel seats have no place on any fiberglass rods in my opinion and should be a punishable offense :lol Just kidding well sorta.

Cork has been the choice for grips and reel seats or inserts as long as I can remember, the reason cork caught on was because it was so durable,dependable,it's versatility,it's ease of turning and shaping etc.Basically because it's the best material for the application

Someones always trying different grip and reel seat materials,that's what keeps it interesting for some of us.

We often see grips & inserts for example made with rattain,stacked birch bark,leather,pine cones,wood,bound coffee stirrers,bamboo,foam,rubber,molded plastic,woven vinyl,rope,twine,all sorts of stuff.

Then they put very heavy coats of finish over the materials to protect them,so in the end the bundled coffee stirrers are really an epoxy grip or reel seat insert.

When you hold the rod in your hand all you feel is an un natural man made material.
It looks really nice,in the beginning that is,as long as the rod hangs around the lodge only being brought out for show and tell everything's fine.

We only see this stuff when it's new seldom if ever after it's been fished 100 days a year for 3 years.

As these guys have mentioned.

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The resilience of cork, along with its natural self-protection, makes it an ideal insert material. Once you realize how well cork insert seats work, they may look better to you.


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On a short, light line rod like that i'd go with dual sliding bands, or a cap and sliding band over cork. my two cents :P


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I know there's been a lot of discussion about it both pro and con, but I was taught long ago that you balance a fly rod with the reel mounted and 30' of line hanging from the tip top. Works for me.


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bottom line is it's your rod, so to each his own, but as Whirly says, no need to fear cork insert's functional properties.


Dock Happening
I'll keep this short,few years back I'm delivering a rod to a guy ,custom job that he insisted have a grip and reel seat of his choice,against all my advice and going against everything I practice when determining the correct reel seat. The big day comes and he's out on our dock casting the rod.

The guy can't get more than 20' of line out,it's dead calm,no wind not even a breeze.he switches reels,same same.The rod just wouldn't form a decent loop, a total dud.

He looked like he just lost his fortune in a poncy scheme,the look on his face was RMM Magazine Cover Material .

Reached into my pocket and pulled out my pen knife and a roll of electrical tape,proceed to whittle off the wooden butt cap I made for the rod,carved away some cork and taped his reel on the back end of the rod as far back as I could.

Handed him the rod.his first cast he threw 40' of line almost by mistake.

So the next time someone tells you weight & balance has no effect on a rods performance remember my story.

As you've been told nobody really cares how you build or fish the rods you make,you asked for help everyone has given you advice, some advice is better than others,however none of us has to live with your creation.
Build the rod however you please I hope your happy in the end and the rod brings you a lifetime of enjoyment !

Tight Lines And Component Choices Matter Loops
Andy M


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Re: Component weight
Post 09 Jul 2017, 05:09 • #16 
Master Guide
Joined: 11/28/15
Posts: 378
Location: US-NC
I don't see the weight of components in the hand, grip and reel seat, really being an issue, although I try to pick a reel seat in keeping with the expected use, quality, and overall appearance of the rod. I make all of my grips the same, Garrison style, regardless of reel seat and rod size. I've put a cork and ring seat on an 9' 5wt rod, and a much heavier big rod seat on another same size and line wt rod by accident. No difference in handling, but I do have to tape the bottom of the reel foot to make it thicker for the larger seat.

I look at it this way...take a standard axe and hold it out by the very end of the handle, then hold it by the head and do the same thing. See the difference in "apparent" weight? It's all about weight distribution, not total weight, within reason of course.


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Re: Component weight
Post 09 Jul 2017, 07:19 • #17 
Guide
Joined: 05/02/13
Posts: 213
Location: Almonte, ON, Canada
For most trout rods, 5 wt or under, I often do not worry about weight of the handle and seat, with the exception of any rod that is focus on tip high for fishing, such as French Leader technique (more likely a graphite rod). In this case, you may need to add to add weight to keep the stress job to keep that 10' tip high.

In fact, I will use the Hardy Princess Reel for most trout rods, would by some be too heavy, in this day on ultra light reels. I would argue as well, with reels so light, how far do you go in handle, and keep in mind fiberglass is a heavy blank (relative).

Otherwise my hand is more likely too tire if the handle is too small (diameter) or not a comfortable grip. I have found cork excellent, dry, wet and after hours, so there is not desire to change here, so it is about shaping a grip that I can hold with a loose grip.

I find a simple large diameter grip with a small increase in diameter to the grip to be the most comfortable when using a light grip.

I had an issue many years ago with a reel and cap-n-ring seat, so I buck the trend and use down locking hardware - which to some would be sacrilege.

I did some studies years ago (posted under a blog) and did define my standard for guides.

I do consider reel weight, handle, seet position, et cetera when building long rods, irrespective of materials used, that is to say anything greater than 9'

10' fiberglass build and balance

https://raspberryfisher.wordpress.com/2 ... and-build/

where I want weight ...

https://raspberryfisher.wordpress.com/2 ... eader-rod/

prefer handle shape for SH rods example, but recommend titebond III, and not expo you for putting the rings together

https://raspberryfisher.wordpress.com/2 ... n-bl5-9wt/

guide rules I use - conclusion

https://raspberryfisher.wordpress.com/2 ... -diameter/


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