It is currently 29 Mar 2024, 00:53


Previous  1, 2, 3  Next New Topic Add Reply
Author Message
Re: Small guides
Post 09 Jun 2017, 10:56 • #26 
Guide
Joined: 11/27/13
Posts: 175
Location: Scotland
Hi Guys

I did allot of cast testing on my last few builds 8'#3 Kabuto and Epic 8'6" #6 plus some others.

I taped on and tested Tom Morgan sizes i was looking for looking for the greatest distance for the least effort figuring this this was the most efficient.

On the whole I found one size up from his charts worked better,there for less friction probably less wear on my guides and indeed fly line too??

Test casting the rod will the tell you what works best

Stephen


Top
  
Quote
Re: Small guides
Post 09 Jun 2017, 12:16 • #27 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19078
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Driftless wrote:
My guide better bring beer too....

If you fish with Bruce Young from Tackle Box Outfitters in San Antonio, he will bring red wine, cheese, and the best smoked-dried venison sausage you've ever tried.


Top
  
Quote
Re: Small guides
Post 09 Jun 2017, 13:14 • #28 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4966
Location: US-MT
Stephen, why would a bigger snake have less friction?


Top
  
Quote
Re: Small guides
Post 10 Jun 2017, 12:01 • #29 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 09/18/09
Posts: 5561
Location: Relocated to the Drought Stricken West.
As far as friction goes: there are as many opinions as anglers, but large guides are often thought to have less friction since:
a) less of the line will be touching the guide.
b) As the line bounces around, it doesn't hit the guides as much.

Another, competing thought is that smaller guides are lighter and you can add an extra guide, taming the line so it doesn't bounce around as much.

I've found that Fuji Alconite guides (or SiC) guides re really slick and shoot the best.

However Stephen's method of test casting is probably the best answer. I keep changing my mind on what I like. I think small guides look better on shorter rods. If you're not shooting a bunch of line, I don't think it matters.


Top
  
Quote
Re: Small guides
Post 10 Jun 2017, 12:59 • #30 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/22/11
Posts: 1720
Location: US-TX
If a line is "bouncing around" then wouldn't more energy be expended laterally versus forward?

Does a gun shoot better with as small diameter that fits the bullet versus a large bore and a bb pellet?


Top
  
Quote
Re: Small guides
Post 10 Jun 2017, 21:18 • #31 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/02/12
Posts: 829
Location: Upstate NY
Sounds like we are over thinking things a bit.


Top
  
Quote
Re: Small guides
Post 11 Jun 2017, 04:33 • #32 
Master Guide
Joined: 11/28/15
Posts: 378
Location: US-NC
"Overthinking" is a caveat of our sport. We tend to look for equipment fixes rather than learning to use what we have to best advantage. How many of us cast further than 50' on a regular basis? Any decent rod and line is fully capable of that and more, large guides, small guides, or something in between.

Reminds me of the wingshooting games. If you're not able to break 90+ targets regularly with a correctly barreled and choked out of the box Remington 1100, a specialized gun won't make any appreciable difference, yet neophytes continually look to equipment before learning the skill needed.

BB


Top
  
Quote
Re: Small guides
Post 11 Jun 2017, 10:47 • #33 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 09/18/09
Posts: 5561
Location: Relocated to the Drought Stricken West.
I'm great at over thinking things. I admire those who just do the test and move on. I over think it and then ignore it all and go fishing. However I have the general feeling that from my casting experiences that large guides shoot line better.

So for ARReflection's observation about rifles, I think a fly line being pulled out of guides and a bullet being pushed out of a rifled barrel are different enough that it isn't a good analogy.

And to be honest, for my trout fishing, I'm not shooting line a lot anyway. For the fishing I do, I end up shooting line more when fishing streamers and small poppers. Your mileage may vary.


Top
  
Quote
Re: Small guides
Post 11 Jun 2017, 15:21 • #34 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 10/12/06
Posts: 1184
Location: US-CA
Carlz,
"And to be honest, for my trout fishing, I'm not shooting line a lot anyway. For the fishing I do, I end up shooting line more when fishing streamers and small poppers. Your mileage may vary."

This is. pretty much, my take on the question. I want more line control while I'm fishing for trout(usually a 5wt, a 6wt if windy or heavily weighted nymphs) as distance is something I get with choosing another rod. As for me, smaller guides keeps the line slap to a minimum and line control to a maximum.
Respectfully rvreclus


Top
  
Quote
Re: Small guides
Post 12 Jun 2017, 04:41 • #35 
Master Guide
Joined: 11/28/15
Posts: 378
Location: US-NC
It would be nice if we could hear about this "line slap" from the gurus of our sport, Lefty Kreh, Gary Borger, Joan Wulff, etc. Even better with videos showing exactly what it is and how to prevent it, if indeed it is the problem people say it is.

Here is one article I found which states the line should have tension between the line hand and stripper guide. If the line has steady tension, there is no "slap" and it is suggested that the slack line which creates line slap is a casting fault.

http://www.ginkandgasoline.com/fly-fish ... -mistakes/

BB


Top
  
Quote
Re: Small guides
Post 12 Jun 2017, 07:08 • #36 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello
Like shooting fish in a barrel !
Tight Lines And Just Too Funny Loops. :hat
Andy M


Top
  
Quote
Re: Small guides
Post 12 Jun 2017, 08:16 • #37 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/24/11
Posts: 1144
Location: Belgium
Thanks to the comic relief I'm OK getting back to over thinking things! The line being used is bound to affect the equation. Is it stiff or limp, clean, freshly dressed or dirty or perhaps textured?


Top
  
Quote
Re: Small guides
Post 12 Jun 2017, 11:27 • #38 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/26/14
Posts: 3578
Location: US-MN
I'm definitely in the over thinking camp, almost to the point of paralysis. Do black nickel guides shoot line better than chrome? :)


Top
  
Quote
Re: Small guides
Post 12 Jun 2017, 13:49 • #39 
Master Guide
Joined: 12/09/11
Posts: 888
Location: Athens GA
I don't know if we're going to get much further with this but I'm still open to reasoned opinions and ideas.
That said, this is similar to the issue of more or less guides - the conventional wisdom or something else?
YPJ


Top
  
Quote
Re: Small guides
Post 12 Jun 2017, 19:31 • #40 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 10/12/06
Posts: 1184
Location: US-CA
nielson,
Here's my take on the philosophical aspects of your question. The issue is exactly a question of conventional wisdom or the personal preference/something else. Conventional wisdom being the position that what sizing works best for most anglers is the best option. The all around aspect being the solution to the sizing question. Personal preferences lead to decisions(smaller or larger) that will satisfy only those few looking for a specific solution for a specific situation. On the rods I build for Trout, dry fly and nymphing, I choose the smallest guide sizing. This is based on the lines I use, small diameter silk like lines, and the general casting distance of no more than 45'. I do not shoot line for this type of fishing , only cast and manipulate what I've cast. I do not want any slack between rod and line, as line control is paramount to me for this type of fishing
In the end the solution being a personal decision for your personal tastes.
Respectfully rvreclus


Top
  
Quote
Re: Small guides
Post 12 Jun 2017, 23:01 • #41 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4966
Location: US-MT
I like small guides, but they still have to be big enough to row the boat.


Last edited by majicwrench on 13 Jun 2017, 12:48, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
Quote
Re: Small guides
Post 13 Jun 2017, 08:26 • #42 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 10/12/06
Posts: 1184
Location: US-CA
I've found guideless, an interesting option. ;) ;) :lol
Respectfully rvreclus


Top
  
Quote
Re: Small guides
Post 13 Jun 2017, 12:03 • #43 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello
Back and forth back and forth back and forth so it goes where will it stop nobody knows.
Tight Lines And Smallish Loops :rollin
Andy M


Top
  
Quote
Re: Small guides
Post 13 Jun 2017, 16:44 • #44 
Guide
Joined: 05/02/13
Posts: 213
Location: Almonte, ON, Canada
ARReflections wrote:
.... Has everyone else came to similar findings and if so, how small is too small? .....I went as small as I could before the line to leader knot prevented otherwise.


I went done a similar path, and I have blogged my study, but your answer to your questions is the one I use. https://raspberryfisher.wordpress.com/c ... -building/

What will drive the smallest size will be how easy it is to pass a connection.

Image

Also consider a size 1 will differ from different Mfgr's. Reference table et cetera posted at https://raspberryfisher.wordpress.com/2 ... -diameter/


Top
  
Quote
Re: Small guides
Post 13 Jun 2017, 17:54 • #45 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/22/11
Posts: 1720
Location: US-TX
Hi raspberry,

It was your documented notes that actually started me on this path.

I agree I am over thinking most of this but one could also claim a 6/7wt fly rod is all you need...


Top
  
Quote
Re: Small guides
Post 13 Jun 2017, 19:31 • #46 
Guide
Joined: 05/02/13
Posts: 213
Location: Almonte, ON, Canada
I do not think you are over-thinking this. I think it was value you are evaluating what you read, but questions and testing. Anyway, I glad (hope) I provided some assistance.

Off the original post but to Andy's, some impromptu playing on freezing guides does not show any advantage on guide size for icing, but a wire guide would have some advantage over a full ring, as the full ring appears to hold the original drips easier.


Top
  
Quote
Re: Small guides
Post 13 Jun 2017, 22:26 • #47 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 10/12/06
Posts: 1184
Location: US-CA
Raspberry-patch,
Your observations/study of lines and guide size is appreciated. Though I have never done a systematic test, my experience has drawn me to much the same conclusion. I believe no guide is too small as long as it allows the fly line to flow. I find my knots and lines with loops to be much more of a problem.
That is another topic, but knots and line and leader connections are a part of the equation. Yes, there is plenty to think about when one wants to know the how, what and where of their activities.
Respectfully rvreclus


Top
  
Quote
Re: Small guides
Post 14 Jun 2017, 00:16 • #48 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4966
Location: US-MT
One of the annoying features of a surgeons knot is it seems to hang in the guides more than some others.....


Top
  
Quote
Re: Small guides
Post 14 Jun 2017, 17:06 • #49 
Master Guide
Joined: 01/21/12
Posts: 462
Location: US-NY
Correct. That's why I use a nail knot coated with aqua seal for fly line to butt of leader and blood knots on my tapered leaders. Loop connections and suergon knots get hung up for me as well. I can tie a nail knot so that I can cast the line out of the tip top (I don't have to manually pull it). I guess a tapered leader would be easiest but I think they are junk and don't use them.


Top
  
Quote
Re: Small guides
Post 14 Jun 2017, 17:34 • #50 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1784
Location: urban Colorado
majicwrench wrote:
IMHO you almost can't go too small. If the fly line can go thru it you are good to go.
Just a one rod observation here, but I have a 9ft 9wt Heddon with gosh-knows how many itty bitty guides, it will shoot a mile of line. Now I am getting too old (lazy? tired?) to use it much anymore.


used to like big guides and not very many of them, about one per foot of rod or one less so 8-9 for a 9ft rod.
Since fishing some cane rods, with tiny stripping guides followed by numbers of small snakes, I am amazed how those setups can shoot line, even a new thick plastic line rather than the silk they were designed for. It's made me think for sure, though I still put larger ceramic guides on most new plastic rods..


Top
  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

Previous  1, 2, 3  Next New Topic Add Reply



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group