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Post 08 May 2017, 12:57 • #1 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/26/14
Posts: 3578
Location: US-MN
Just ordered this blank and Lamiglas does not provide guide spacing or guide size - not even if you call them. If you hit the web, there are a mind boggling number of theories and recommendations for guide spacing. I did find a couple of folks that listed spacing on this site, but they were quite different and did not have the guide size. I will definitely do some trial and error testing on my own, but I was hoping for a starting point. This will be just my second build.

If anyone has built on this blank and can provide the guide spacing and guide sizes, I would appreciate it.

Thanks!


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Post 08 May 2017, 16:32 • #2 
Guide
Joined: 11/27/14
Posts: 330
Location: US-NC
I bet the guide chart for Tom Morgan's blanks on Snake Guides's site will put you very close. That is my plan for my 3wt and static test to adjust spacing.


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Post 08 May 2017, 17:16 • #3 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/15/06
Posts: 806
Location: Boston
I built on those blanks back in the day...here's the original spacing chart straight from Lamiglas...

Spacings are in inches from the tip:

FL904

5 1/2, 12, 19 1/4, 27 1/4, 35 1/2, 43 1/2, 52 1/2, 62 3/4


Enjoy,

Vlad


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Post 08 May 2017, 21:29 • #4 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/26/14
Posts: 3578
Location: US-MN
Thanks guys! So Tom Morgan advocates the rod feet +1 rule for guides, rounding up for 0.5 ft, while Lami rounds down. I'll try both and see what casts/feels best. Any advantages to extra guides? Extra weight would probably be a disadvantage. Not enough guides and you might get some line slapping the rod when casting, right?


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Post 09 May 2017, 08:29 • #5 
Guide
Joined: 11/27/14
Posts: 330
Location: US-NC
I have built mainly spinning rods and just started with fly rods but I would think that is still a balance of casting performance and stress distribution. 5 1/2 inch from the tip top for the first snake guide seems like a long distance even with a slower Lami blank, when fighting a fish sometimes I have no choice or accidentally put the rod in a bad angle, close to high sticking, when that happens the tip is going to bend more so than doing a stress distribution test in perfect 45 degree condition pull. I did a CCS test of the 7 ft 3wt and the action angle was 60 ern of 2.7 so low power but not super slow tip. Since the Lami blank has more power in the butt when it bends I would want the stripper guide a touch closer toward the handle to optimize the power.I think you are going the right route in trying both and maybe going somewhere in between.


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Post 09 May 2017, 17:26 • #6 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/26/14
Posts: 3578
Location: US-MN
Thanks dmiller! Some good points!


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Post 09 May 2017, 19:14 • #7 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 09/18/09
Posts: 5561
Location: Relocated to the Drought Stricken West.
dmiller, Interesting thoughts. I don't trust CCS too much with a blank this pliable, but I agree with your assessment on the 2pc 3wt. This rod will go a 180 degree bend.


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Post 09 May 2017, 20:56 • #8 
Guide
Joined: 11/27/14
Posts: 330
Location: US-NC
I think CCS is a pretty good tool at comparing blanks and the ern is seems to very close forcfiberglass fly. The action angle of the 2 peice Lami3wt is very close to the measurement I made for the Sceptre 8.5ft blanks I have and many wouldn't say it is a slow blank.I see many folks get action and power confused and many manufactures in that regard.I agree with you that it doesn't tell all of the characteristics of a fiberglass fly rod because there is so many variables that the CCS system has to take out to have consistency.

All I know is I can't wait to have some time to wrap up this 7ft Lamiglas and hit some of the tiny creeks I run into on the work route lunch break. Short cast is in order so shooting line is not a priority so if another small snake guide makes it feel better I am not going to worry about the extra weight bc the light wire Snake Brand guides are incredibly light.


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Post 09 May 2017, 21:25 • #9 
Guide
Joined: 11/27/14
Posts: 330
Location: US-NC
Wow Lamiglas does recommend large guides, 10mm stripper going down to size 1 snakes for the little 663.


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Post 10 May 2017, 06:34 • #10 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/26/14
Posts: 3578
Location: US-MN
Dmiller, that does seem big. Where did you find Lami size suggestions?


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Post 10 May 2017, 07:02 • #11 
Master Guide
Joined: 12/31/13
Posts: 519
Location: US-Mount Pleasant, SC
Greg,

I'd put that first guide at 4.5-4.75" from the ring of the tiptop and go from there. 5.5" is too far. I've built a few of these and my notes show 4.625 (twice) and 4.75" from the ring of the tiptop. 1/0s to start, down to a 3 if you use a wire 8mm stripping guide or 10mm agate guide (down to a 2 if using an 8 or 9mm agate stripper).

Marty


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Post 10 May 2017, 10:41 • #12 
Guide
Joined: 11/27/14
Posts: 330
Location: US-NC
Driftless wrote:
Dmiller, that does seem big. Where did you find Lami size suggestions?



It is on a PDF online for their 2010 year Spring Creek series.


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Post 10 May 2017, 15:48 • #13 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/26/14
Posts: 3578
Location: US-MN
Thanks Marty and Dmiller!


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Post 11 May 2017, 04:34 • #14 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/12/07
Posts: 1292
Location: western Massachusetts
The honey lami and the spring creek lami are two very different rods. If you use that guide spacing, make sure you do a stress test to adjust the guides for whichever blank you are using.

4" to 5" are acceptable distances for the first guide, but I have seen 3.5" and 5.5" on rods and they appear to work very well. I like #1, #2, and #3 guides up to an 8 mm stripper for 6-6' and 7-0' lamis and a 10mm, or a 9mm agate on the 7-6. Everything chokes through the tiptop anyway.


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Post 11 May 2017, 04:46 • #15 
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Joined: 04/20/07
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Location: US-ME
On some of the soft Lamis, oversized standard wire guides, let alone a lot of them, will set that thing to flopping around like a button on an outhouse door.

That's what I would watch for the most in trying different spacings, and with any of them I'd use light wire snakes, the smallest possible for the first three or four that match the tip top. Line flopping around in too-open guides up toward the tip and then funneling at the tiptop ("choking," to use archfly's good term) will also upset continuity of the upper third of the rod in casting, but won't necessarily show up in a static flex test.


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Post 11 May 2017, 04:52 • #16 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/12/07
Posts: 1292
Location: western Massachusetts
I agree Whirly, only light wire guides, and one #3!


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Post 11 May 2017, 06:33 • #17 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/26/14
Posts: 3578
Location: US-MN
Thanks Archfly and Whrlpool, more good advice. I need all the help I can get! That is what is awesome about this forum.


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Post 11 May 2017, 11:33 • #18 
Guide
Joined: 11/27/14
Posts: 330
Location: US-NC
Traditional looks aside, wouldn't it help performance to use the the smallest guide for 4 or so "runner" guides then jump in sizes quickly to the stripper instead of doing 2 of each size?


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Post 11 May 2017, 13:36 • #19 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/26/14
Posts: 3578
Location: US-MN
Dmiller, what you suggest is definitely an option that many builders use (from what I have learned). Based on this feedback, I was going to try what you put out there:

8mm, 3, 1, 1/0, 1/0, 1/0, 1/0,1/0, 1/0

and a more "traditional" approach:

8mm, 3, 3, 2, 2, 1, 1, 1/0, 1/0


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Post 11 May 2017, 20:34 • #20 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/02/14
Posts: 537
Location: US- Northern CO
i built a few using tom morgans spacing but modified it just a bit using universal lite wires #2 to start and about 3-1/0's to finish up. loved the way all of them cast. on a 3wt rod the #2 is plenty big enough to start with IMHO


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Post 17 May 2017, 11:36 • #21 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/26/14
Posts: 3578
Location: US-MN
I got the blank the other day and it looks great! Got more excited after I gave it a wiggle. I've read on here that for some, this blank is too slow, but it is a bit faster than my favorite trout rod, a JG Spring Creek 8' 4wt from Deep Bend Rodworks, so I don't see that being an issue.


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Post 18 May 2017, 06:13 • #22 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
Enthusiasm and judjement are a winning combination.

On your guide sizing, once your are trying the small, light guides concept, your stripping guide establishes the max. If you visualize a long tapered cone, its thick end the size of that guide's i.d., running up the rod, the next guide will be even or start the taper of the cone.

To me, that is better done by eyeballing than listed sizes. After the stripper, you might very well see it as 3, 2, ... or 2, 1 . . .. Mentally visualize that tapered cone parallel to the rod, its upper diameter based on the tiptop size, its bottom by the stripping guide size. Each guide between simply "wraps" that cone so the inner surface of the guide at its apex touches ("guides"/forms) the cone.


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Post 18 May 2017, 06:32 • #23 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/26/14
Posts: 3578
Location: US-MN
Thanks Whrlpool!


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Post 18 May 2017, 09:48 • #24 
Guide
Joined: 02/13/16
Posts: 326
Location: US-TX
If you think about what's happening to the rod while fishing and casting, when is it ever actually completely straightened out, especially on fuller flexing rods? Seems there's always some amount of curvature which makes the perfect progression of sizes kinda moot. It'll only be in line when the rod is not being used really. So it seems like a progression somewhere in the ballpark would work, although I think I am liking the smaller guide theory.


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Post 25 May 2017, 12:37 • #25 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/02/14
Posts: 537
Location: US- Northern CO
"parallel to the rod, its upper diameter based on the tiptop size, its bottom by the stripping guide size."

thanks for bringing that up whrlpool, i have been leaning towards and using the small guides for a long time but i have to admit placing a 1/0 universal snake guide right before the bigger tip top never sat well in the back of my head. seems to me a standard tiptop opening is larger than the 1/0? I did use some pac bay lite wires on a rod they were a bit larger than the snake brand universals in size. the rod works wonderfully with bigger lite wire but they sing like a violin when some of my lines run through them.


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