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Post 20 May 2018, 11:59 • #51 
Sport
Joined: 10/02/08
Posts: 84
Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN
I'm sure glad I just ordered my reel seats from Matt. (one with wood and two hardware only.) In the mail as we speak. I turn my reel seat wood myself. I suppose that's taking the food out of some ones mouth but I'm on a fixed income.
Mike Cummings


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Post 20 May 2018, 19:49 • #52 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/31/15
Posts: 1238
Location: Northern Rockies
I had not noticed how closely Matt's products resembled (matched?) the Lemke seats until this thread.

I have no problem with less expensive items sourced from Asia (or elsewhere), but I do have to wonder how difficult it is to come up with a more unique aesthetic approach to the basic design of the components.


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Post 21 May 2018, 18:59 • #53 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/31/15
Posts: 1238
Location: Northern Rockies
I've tried not to get pulled too deeply into this discussion, mostly because I just didn't (probably still don't) know enough about all involved. As a hobbyist builder and working angler who has just started venturing out of preselected kits and into something that represents a more individual vision, I found several of the Proof offerings interesting and had them marked for future builds. But as I kept thinking about it, I felt like there was something I needed to say--to ask, really--, just to get it off my chest.

I guess, the crux of the matter for me is this--If you were to show me two pictures side by side of the Lemke LC1 reel seat and the Atlas reel seat, I honestly don't know if I could tell the difference between them. And to me, that is a serious concern. Like I said, designing a product and having it manufactured in Asia is fine with me. But I also believe it should be your product to have manufactured, and not someone else's.

So Matt, I feel obligated to ask you about this. I'm not trying to push a political agenda, and I don't want to stir the pot (any more than it has been). I just want to ask honestly about what's going on now that this has been brought to my attention.


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Post 21 May 2018, 19:29 • #54 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/24/12
Posts: 456
Location: US-MI
Hi,
Thanks for the reply. I'll send you a PM in regard to your questions. I kind of feel this thread has run its course.


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Post 21 May 2018, 19:36 • #55 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/31/15
Posts: 1238
Location: Northern Rockies
mdraft1 wrote:
I'll send you a PM in regard to your questions.

I look forward to your response. If you feel a PM is best, I certainly understand that. Though, I was hoping for a public response since this is a question about a public marketplace.


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Post 22 May 2018, 01:23 • #56 
Sport
Joined: 10/02/08
Posts: 84
Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN
Matt,
After reading your post (#37) I feel really bad that you're caving in to this B.S. Don't let these people bully you. Run your business the way you want and if they don't want to buy from you so what. I use to buy reel seats from Struble until I found the same seat from Pac Bay cheaper. I wish I had one of your Garrison style seats on a rod I built from a bamboo blank with a Dickerson taper. A 7613 I think. I have a picture of an original Dickerson 7613 or 7614 that has a seat very much like the Garrison. I built it 20 years ago and really never found a seat I liked. Anyway, do your thing and I'd hate to see you stop, posting on this forum.
Mike


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Post 23 May 2018, 07:14 • #57 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/24/12
Posts: 456
Location: US-MI
Hi Mike,

Good to hear from you. I have no intention to stop posting on this forum. The folks here are great and the moderators do an excellent job. The decision to not bring on any new "similar seats" was made a while ago so I don't consider post #37 to be caving (an olive branch is much different than a white flag). Right now I don't have time or much patience for the drama so here's hoping that this thread has been helpful to any and all that take the time to read it.

As a side note: A big thank you for the dozens of PMs and emails in support of Proof that have come in as this thread has developed.


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Post 23 May 2018, 07:30 • #58 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
On the one hand, I think a designer of something more widely adopted over decades has to realize that imitation is a form of flattery. On the other, a consumer or maker can decide that only the real thing will do. Sometimes a design cue is so old that no thought is even given to the origin/real thing. Good information will enable a seller/manufacturer and potential consumers to make decisions about allegiance to authenticity, source, and so on. I seem to recall it was Mercedes Benz, or maybe Saab or Volvo, who developed and patented a key auto structural feature that dramatically enhanced crash safety. They never enforced the patent, knowing that it would, and needed to be widely adopted--and improved from there.

These conflicts exist throughout the realm of manufacturing and subsequent marketing. We are not going to settle the best approach here, especially on one or two products.

Please, limit the discussion to information, or communicate with any commercial member via PM. In that way, individuals can choose.


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Post 23 May 2018, 16:29 • #59 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/19/12
Posts: 351
Location: Legnago (Verona) Italy
Chris Barclay, great speech!!!!!
Thank you. I would like copy and paste it for some bamboo makers who are arguing on Facebook.


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Post 23 May 2018, 18:56 • #60 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 10/30/09
Posts: 2527
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Blue Charm wrote:
Chris Barclay, great speech!!!!!
Thank you. I would like copy and paste it for some bamboo makers who are arguing on Facebook.


Thanks. I’m perfectly happy for you to share it if you think it’d be helpful to others.


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Post 28 May 2018, 14:38 • #61 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/10/09
Posts: 1651
Location: US-OH
I really like this style of reel seat hardware and have used it on many rods I've built. I've used those by Struble, Lemke, and Bill Franke but many have offered or machined them over the years. Dave LeClaire, Bellinger, and Walt Carpenter come to mind. All different prices and qualities. I welcome another choice and see nothing objectionable because they're all very similar in design and function. I've often lamented the fact that Lemke doesn't offer another shade of tan or brown other than the one he exclusively provides L. Kenney. It's really too bad that Matt has decided to stop offering these seats - unnecessary and regrettable, IMO.


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Post 28 May 2018, 14:47 • #62 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/24/12
Posts: 456
Location: US-MI
I have plenty in stock. I will not be ordering more of the Garrison style, but my current supply will last for a good long time.


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Post 28 Jun 2018, 14:00 • #63 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/02/14
Posts: 537
Location: US- Northern CO
With the technology the Chinese have all they would have to do to replicate that Garrison reel seat is take a look at all of our photos.


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Post 28 Jun 2018, 18:36 • #64 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/02/14
Posts: 537
Location: US- Northern CO
mdraft1, i have absolutely no need or project for the order i just placed. your business is your business and i am glad your around.


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Post 29 Jun 2018, 10:30 • #65 
Sport
Joined: 06/20/16
Posts: 38
Location: US-MI
One thing that has not been touched on is that Matt is not trying to counterfeit this reel seat, he is making a product , put his name on it and representing it as his product which I have no problem with what so ever. Some of you may have a Benchmade or Spyderco knive in your pocket, you may be surprised to find out it maybe a counterfeit import that you paid hundreds of dollars for, the market is saturated with them and its difficult to know what you are buying. Counterfeiting is a crime copying is not and Matt has not broken any laws in my book so continue on sir. The negative comments here shouldn't be aimed at Matt they should aimed at us his customers that are buying a quality imported reel seat and not the original.


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Post 02 Jul 2018, 15:28 • #66 
Master Guide
Joined: 07/12/17
Posts: 390
Location: SW B.C.
I really like the looks of the Garrison style seat, especially in the blackened nickel, and need a new seat for a bamboo rod, but I'm not a fan of single rings that have to mar the top of the foot to tighten. How are these for damage to the foot finish?


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Post 02 Jul 2018, 15:58 • #67 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/24/12
Posts: 456
Location: US-MI
Hi, I haven't had any issues with the seat maring the top of the reel feet. I've been using a black Loop reel with the seat for a few months and I just checked and it looks like new.


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Post 28 Oct 2018, 19:00 • #68 
Master Guide
Joined: 07/12/17
Posts: 390
Location: SW B.C.
I just received my first of these and it's a beauty in blackened nickel/burl. I hope you have stock for a long time!


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