It is currently 19 Apr 2024, 11:41


New Topic Add Reply
Author Message
Post 13 Apr 2018, 00:37 • #1 
Master Guide
Joined: 07/12/17
Posts: 391
Location: SW B.C.
I received this five-piece beauty and made a romantic pairing with my grandfather's Dam Quick from 1973, then did a little swapping for a Martin MG-8.
This 7 1/2' rod has a narrow butt and flexes easily into the grip, and is rated for 1/8 - 3/8 oz lures or six weight fly line. I hate to say it, but it feels darned good as a six weight fly rod! I wonder if it shares a common blank with something like the FF756? I look forward to fishing it as a fly rod, but it will see most use tossing spinners for bass.
It's a testament to the Aetna Foul-Proof guides that they came through unscathed after the seller jammed the rod into the tube with force. I thought for sure a couple would be seriously damaged.

Image
Image
Image


Last edited by Shrimpman on 13 Apr 2018, 09:19, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
Quote
Post 13 Apr 2018, 05:20 • #2 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19104
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
can't imagine why you'd hate to say it - there were many good combo rods in both glass and cane, and having that great rod option in your quiver is never bad.
I'm curious how Fenwick got the Phillipson patent reel seat.
Adding grandad's reel makes a perfect combo with built-in karma.


Top
  
Quote
Post 13 Apr 2018, 22:11 • #3 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/22/07
Posts: 873
Location: Out West
Nice looking rod and setup there. Out of curiosity, what letter does the serial number start with.


Top
  
Quote
Post 14 Apr 2018, 08:19 • #4 
Master Guide
Joined: 07/12/17
Posts: 391
Location: SW B.C.
Hello, the serial number is prefixed with K, which coincidentally seems to put it around 1973.
My grandfather's original outfit had the DAM reel on a stouter FS79.


Top
  
Quote
Post 14 Apr 2018, 09:40 • #5 
Master Guide
Joined: 06/28/16
Posts: 930
Location: Northern WI
That's a sweet looking Fenwick.


Top
  
Quote
Post 15 Apr 2018, 03:13 • #6 
Master Guide
Joined: 08/29/09
Posts: 512
Location: 2 hrs from all good things Northern Californian
Have fished a Fenwick PLS 70-4 with a DAM Quick 330 for 50 years. Landed everything between bluegill and 26" Eagle Lake trout and similar sized stripers. Once hooked up a 50 lb. King while targeting steelies on the Smith; she muscled me around for 30 minutes before wrapping around a log. Rod and reel were overmatched but never failed.


Top
  
Quote
Post 13 Jul 2018, 16:50 • #7 
New Member
Joined: 05/27/18
Posts: 4
Location: US-OR
Old post, I know. I have a Fenwick 5-piece just like this as well as a Fenwick 4-piece eight foot pack rod also spin/fly for 1/8 to 3/8 lures.

IMHO these are both noodle rods with spin gear. Just for fun, I put them on the wall added different weights to the end and measured the flexural characteristics.

Short answer is that these rods bend a lot more like fly rods than spinning rods. You could use it either way but there are better casting rods if your primary intent is spinning gear.

If my primary intent was going to be with a fly line, I would grab one of the Fenwick's in a heartbeat.


Top
  
Quote
Post 16 Jul 2018, 09:41 • #8 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19104
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
reasonable point about noodle-y spinning rods - I find them to be not annoying, rather quite fun, in 5' UL rods.
A noodle-y 7' spinning rod is nothing I'd want, thought as I've mentioned on other threads, a good super-progressive fly rod taper makes a great light-line spinning rod.

But as far as good light and reasonably fast spinning rods go, old Garcia Conolons are Really nice (masthead photo), also Berkley Tri-sport, and I stumbled onto a keeper once with a 6' H-I Star.
This has been a great rod for pier fishing nursery seatrout, and even caught a few schoolies and rat reds in the bay.
A better rod than some of the Phillipsons I've had, excepting my 6-1/2' Epoxite Registered.
Image
Image
Image Victoria is fishing my green Penn 716 on the H-I rod.


Top
  
Quote
Post 20 Jul 2018, 16:07 • #9 
New Member
Joined: 05/27/18
Posts: 4
Location: US-OR
So many variables, and so many personal references. A fishing rods performance in any situation (relative to a different rod) is dependent upon the rods materials of construction, geometry guides spacing and size; weight of lure and bait; line tensile strength, flexibility and diameter; reel and spool dimensions, and specific fishing conditions. I don't think there is anything controversial or new with this statement. Every rod maker has and continues to make a variety of model rods trying to hit that sweet spot for all of us.

Unfortunately, rod design is kept as much a mystery as possible and the consumer is left with trying as many as possible until he or she finds the "perfect" rod. We defend this decision with our honor.

I have have tried to decipher some of the mystery by reverse engineering some of the specifics of the rod itself that leads to the performance I prefer. My previous post was just one simple observation on the Fenwick rod in the OP. No offense taken by the subsequent poster whose opinion is just as valid.

It is possible to calculate the actual deflection of any item (such as a fishing rod) if you know a few constants in the equation such as: geometry of the item, modulus of elasticity of the material of construction, and the mass applied during the test, and the placement of the mass during the test.

Example: The equation to determine the deflection at the end of a cantilevered fishing rod with a weight placed at the end would be: PL cubed divided by 3EI
P being the load applied
L being the length of the rod
E being the modulus of elasticity
and I being the section modulus of the material
I won't bother you with the details of the units and any actual calculations because they are not important to this discussion or the reverse engineering I am messing with.

What is important is that if you are examining rods of the same length, then L is the same of those rods, Likewise if you use the same weight and place it at the end of the rod, then P or the mass of the load is also a constant. The number 3 is also a constant.

This leaves the only variables left in the equation to be the physical geometry of the rod itself and the modulus of elasticity of the material. In actuality how these two factors achieve a certain deflection (or bend in the rod) is immaterial except a higher modulus material such as graphite, will need a smaller section modulus to achieve the same deflection. This means lighter rods with the same performance can be made out of graphite. Nothing new here.

Every rod make since bamboo has messed with different materials of construction and different geometry to woo us into buying their perfect rod. By adjusting both the E and the I in the equation, they can create a rod that bends where and by as much as they want. There are practical limits of course.

So back to measuring actual deflection. By doing this, you can physically see where the bend (deflection) of any rod occurs and how much that bend is. Rods with similar deflection characteristics perform very similarly when all of the other variables are the same. i.e. the same reel, same line, and same bait on any given water and with any given expected fish (P).

By examining the deflection characteristics of the rods I prefer for certain applications and comparing them to other rods, I have not used before, I can quickly select an application that the rod might be best suited for.

My earlier comment did not elaborate, but a fiberglass fly rod with a soft and forgiving presentation typically bends more uniformly throughout its length and less at the tip. Some graphite rods are much more aggressive and show less deflection in the butt section. Fiberglass spinning rods typically are stronger in the butt section with less deflection there and about the same deflection in the tip as a similar length fly rod. Thus my observation on the Fenwick. Similar end deflection, but a weaker butt section which tends to make it noodle(y) in my view but, not necessarily bad.

I could go on in this vein, but I am already running off at the mouth. Hope these observation prove useful to someone. If anyone wants more detail on my data feel free to send me a PM.


Top
  
Quote
Post 21 Jul 2018, 12:43 • #10 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19104
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
not exactly true - taper is change in bulk modulus over length.
Bulk modulus is the specific modulus (of the blend) multiplied by the moment of inertia, which is geometric, dependent on diameter and thickness. Of course, adding thickness adds weight, but it also adds stiffness, while increasing diameter can add stiffness without significantly increasing weight.
Rods are built on mandrels that define the inside diameter of the taper.
Specific modulus (or equivalent) of the MOCs increases as follows: e-glass, s-glass (equivalent to cane), and whole gang of graphites, from I to V.
The MOI math is how you design a spigot ferrule that bends at the correct rate for its position on the rod taper.

You can make any taper from e-glass, demonstrated by great big game rods. With higher modulus, you're limited how soft you can go by strength.

If you look at old Heddon T tapers in e-glass, they have a super-soft 1' tip, but the rest of the rod is quite fast - that's a superprogressive taper.
At the other extreme are parabolic tapers, where the tip is fast and most of the flex is closer to the handle (how you make a short rod cast with a long rod).
You find superprogressive tapers (fine tip) used in a lot of early glass spinning rods and bait rods (Silaflex).

Referenced above, and shown many times, here's one Japanese approach to a superprogressive taper, my 7'9" XUL salt rod.
Image
Image
This rod has a glass core, exposed in the tip, a layer of graphite fibers over 70% of its length, and a weave graphite layer on the butt.
The weave graphite butt is the same idea as a flared butt on a cane rod.
The rod will throw 5g, protect 2-lb test, and has the butt to horse 23" seatrout, which I've done.
When fighting a fish, the angle you're holding the rod defines which portion of the rod is loading, quoting Doc Henshall, "give him the butt"


Top
  
Quote
Post 21 Jul 2018, 12:48 • #11 
New Member
Joined: 05/27/18
Posts: 4
Location: US-OR
Bulk modulus as you are using it is the modulus of elasticity times the moment of inertia. Not sure what you think I said that is not true?? The equation I cited is a standard cantilever deflection equation for a load placed on the end.

I skipped over rod taper (but am not ignorant of it) simply because a deflection curve also takes into account the taper and any other rod specific variables such as changing materials of construction through-out its length. i.e. the changing bulk modulus or taper.

Perhaps you are missing the point that I wanted to make which is: in response to the OP and the Fenwick (nice by the way) originally shown, that it performs more like most conventional glass fly rods than most conventional glass spinning rods.

My follow up post was intended to demonstrate that without going into all of the details of design, you can physically measure a rods performance simply based on deflection characteristics. This is useful for older rods of unknown design for which there is no other practical way to obtain the flexural characteristics without cutting it into an infinite number of pieces. Simply a practical way to compare how one old rod will perform in relation to another.

Not trying to initiate a fishing rod design course here.


Top
  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

New Topic Add Reply



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group