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Rod balance
Post 20 Apr 2018, 11:23 • #1 
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Can you change the way a rod loads and cast by increasing or decreasing the weight of the reel instead of going up or down in line weights?.......thanks aurelio


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Re: Rod balance
Post 20 Apr 2018, 16:34 • #2 
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You change the way you load the rod by changing what you feel of the rod, not the characteristic taper of the rod.
The concepts are butt-heavy vs. tip-heavy, and mass dampening.
With a butt-heavy rod (combo), your tendency is to throw tighter loops, and the opposite with a tip-heavy rod (again, combo).
The dampening idea is the more mass in the system, the less you feel from the rod itself.
The ideal set-up is going to be the lightest reel that keeps the rod from pulling you (and fatiguing your joints in torsion if it's really tip-heavy).
The nice thing about short light rods in general, is you're never going to get to this tip-heavy extreme, so you virtually can't find a reel that's too light - the lighter the reel, the more you feel from the rod.

Personally, across the board, I like just slightly tip-heavy. Balance within an inch or three so of the grip.
There will be arguments about how the balance changes with more line, etc., (which are really non arguments, because it's the same with all rods) but finding what you like for a starting point is always a good thing. Some people like a rod that reminds them to throw tight loops.


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Re: Rod balance
Post 20 Apr 2018, 17:21 • #3 
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Ron thanks I thought it was just my imagination but I put a slightly lighter reel on my F703 Scott and the balance point is about inches in front of the grip and it feels like it is loading better now I need to get it on the water and see how it fishes.......aurelio


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Re: Rod balance
Post 20 Apr 2018, 17:27 • #4 
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aurelio corso wrote:
Can you change the way a rod loads and cast by increasing or decreasing the weight of the reel


No


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Re: Rod balance
Post 20 Apr 2018, 17:37 • #5 
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If you tend to rush a rod, slightly tip heavy balance is likely to slow you down and apply power more progressively as you overcome the inertia of rest of the rod. That makes you feel it load better, and although the rod's loading hasn't changed, you may be taking better advantage of the way it loads. Sounds to me like that is about what you experienced. Make sense? Or maybe you can describe it even better. Just a further back hand position on the grip can do the same thing without changing the favorite reel.


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Re: Rod balance
Post 20 Apr 2018, 17:52 • #6 
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look at it this way.
Your senses tell you a rod seems faster if the reel is heavier, because the weight of the reel is pulling the rod to vertical.

When you get to the extreme of a long, heavy rod, too tip heavy fatigues your joints from the load of stopping and reversing the rod.
A heavier reel there literally reduces that load on your joints and helps you change the rod direction.


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Re: Rod balance
Post 20 Apr 2018, 18:11 • #7 
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I wouldn’t give a firm “no” to that question, but PERCEPTION can change with reel weight. What bulldog said about taper is the fixed value with backend weight being the variable. Change the variable and perceived load changes.


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Re: Rod balance
Post 20 Apr 2018, 19:48 • #8 
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Really, when you think about it the perception is what makes us like or dislike any particular combo. By and large my preference is for a butt heavy feel and when i perceive that just right feel I will make better and some times longer casts. I think I agree with the others on the mechanics involved, but believe perceived fit is what counts. I don't like to fight a tool.


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Re: Rod balance
Post 20 Apr 2018, 20:10 • #9 
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casting is certainly not an issue for me - I fly fish in the dark, and was able to cast my RPLX7 140' 30 years ago.

Two of the factors really come into play when fishing by feel. Minimum mass = minimum damping, and especially, slightly tip-heavy gives you a fraction of a second jump on feeling and striking the fish.
Image


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Re: Rod balance
Post 20 Apr 2018, 20:30 • #10 
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I'd agree with the general consensus here. Rod balance is a big thing for me, and it can definitely affect how the rod feels in your hand. But I don't think it technically changes how the rod loads. I think it affects how you work it. So, if changing the balance point with a different weight reel has a positive impact on how it works for you, it's a win.

I think a change of 1.5 ounces is where it begins to be noticeable.


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Re: Rod balance
Post 20 Apr 2018, 20:58 • #11 
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Whrlpool,that's what I felt..........aurelio


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Re: Rod balance
Post 20 Apr 2018, 21:09 • #12 
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bulldog1935 wrote:
casting is certainly not an issue for me - I fly fish in the dark, and was able to cast my RPLX7 140' 30 years ago.

Dude, that is one hell of a cast. Is that RPLX one of those two handed rods?


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Re: Rod balance
Post 20 Apr 2018, 22:33 • #13 
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Not sure, but think I've read somewhere that in some distance casting competitions they don't even have reels on their rods.

Barry


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Re: Rod balance
Post 20 Apr 2018, 23:06 • #14 
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Here's a guy who swears all rods cast better and easier with no reel. I met him at a show, and he has some good info, but was not convinced to buy his system.

http://rexfly.com/rexfly-casting-system/

Imageimage upload without registration


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Re: Rod balance
Post 20 Apr 2018, 23:23 • #15 
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Charles Ritz always fished with the reel in his pocket, and of course won his casting championships the same way.
or here, hanging from his shirt
Image

140' on 9' RPLX7 was a TS-250 with basket, consistently shooting entire line plus 30' of backing. All about getting up line speed on the 30' head before you shoot.
fwiw, that's a butt-heavy rig with Lamson LP3.5 reel - a good argument about tight loops, short arm movements and haul.

What slightly tip heavy gains is better feeling of the rod loading.


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Re: Rod balance
Post 21 Apr 2018, 01:02 • #16 
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Sh!t, if I were shooting that much line, it would look like a Tiger Woods driver spraying balls 3 fairways over...

140' a seriously legit cast. I'm trying to think of a situation in my fishing where I'd need that. Perhaps on occasion for surf perch, although most are caught well within that range.


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Re: Rod balance
Post 21 Apr 2018, 03:52 • #17 
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I never saw one of those casting contests, do they attempt any degree of accuracy or presentation with those long casts or is it all about distance? Gotta be hard to mend a line that long.


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Re: Rod balance
Post 21 Apr 2018, 12:17 • #18 
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i really tend to like rods i have read other criticize as being “tip heavy”.

all of my rod/reel pairings place static balance point an inch or two beyond the front edge of the cork grip


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Re: Rod balance
Post 21 Apr 2018, 14:31 • #19 
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Corlay mentioned how some people call some rods tip heavy. I always figured they were using a reel that's too light.
I tried fishing a rig that was tip heavy a few years ago. My hand was sore afterwards. I've always been someone that likes a balanced rig. Having had hand issues for a four month span reinforced my opinion on the subject.


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Re: Rod balance
Post 21 Apr 2018, 14:31 • #20 
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clarkman23 wrote:
Sh!t, if I were shooting that much line, it would look like a Tiger Woods driver spraying balls 3 fairways over...

140' a seriously legit cast. I'm trying to think of a situation in my fishing where I'd need that. Perhaps on occasion for surf perch, although most are caught well within that range.

It's a surf thing, bro.
So what happens? I hook up a 25-lb stingray that takes me a half-hour to drag on the beach while my buddies are limiting out on specs.
It's OK, I then got some specs, too.


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Re: Rod balance
Post 21 Apr 2018, 19:25 • #21 
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bulldog1935 wrote:
casting is certainly not an issue for me - I fly fish in the dark, and was able to cast my RPLX7 140' 30 years ago.

Two of the factors really come into play when fishing by feel. Minimum mass = minimum damping, and especially, slightly tip-heavy gives you a fraction of a second jump on feeling and striking the fish.
Image

Dude, that looks like broad daylight to me :lol :lol :lol


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Re: Rod balance
Post 03 May 2018, 11:54 • #22 
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aurelio corso wrote:
Ron thanks I thought it was just my imagination but I put a slightly lighter reel on my F703 Scott and the balance point is about inches in front of the grip and it feels like it is loading better now I need to get it on the water and see how it fishes.......aurelio


I have that same rod and tried half a dozen reels on it. The best for me were a sage click and a galvan brookie, anything with a real drag was too heavy (4oz - too heavy, around 3oz or less - perfect). Pretty much just agreeing along with what others have said here, but with the balance point is in front of the grip I "feel" the rod load and unload better in my cast. For me this is a lot of the fun of this fiberglass rod ....


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