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Epic S3 glass?
Post 17 Feb 2018, 23:53 • #1 
Sport
Joined: 08/08/16
Posts: 42
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
I was cruising Swift fly fishing’s website, and it mentioned that the fastglass is now S3.

https://swiftflyfishing.com/collections/epic_custom

When I click on specs for individual rods, they all still mention S2. Just wondering if anyone had any insight on this.


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Re: Epic S3 glass?
Post 18 Feb 2018, 02:47 • #2 
Guide
Joined: 02/06/15
Posts: 160
Location: Colorful Colorado
They are coming out with some new rods so I'd guess they working on updating the website pages slowly but surely.


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Re: Epic S3 glass?
Post 18 Feb 2018, 11:46 • #3 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/31/15
Posts: 1238
Location: Northern Rockies
CTS, the manufacturer of Epic's blanks, has been making noise over the last several months about their new and improved glass for their Quartz line of rods. They're calling it CrystalGlass, and I assume that it's the same thing that Epic is using in their blanks.

They are scant on the details, saying that it is "extremely high grade uni-directional S-Glass with amazing clarity." Likely it is a slight increase in the modulus of the fiberglass used in the rods. Keep in mind, the difference between E-Glass and S-Glass isn't that high. According to Epic's own website:
Quote:
The modulus, or resistance to bending of E-Glass is around 75GPa, with S-Glass exhibiting greater stiffness at around 95GPa, High modulus Carbon Fibre 350 - 450Gpa.

E-glass - roughly 75GPa
S-Glass - roughly 95GPa
High modulus Carbon Fibre around 350 - 450Gpa

In saying all this, Modulus alone is a little meaningless. It must be further described such as elastic modulus, flexural modulus, ductile modulus and several others.

In other words, a slight improvement with a whole lot of marketing.

Also, Epic has a long history of using new improvements in their rods and advertising later. I received a four-piece blank a full 2-3 weeks before they were mentioned on their website and just as the first reports were materializing here, and several of their color options underwent a slight shift last year. CTS started advertising CrystalGlass in 2017, so who knows how long Epic has been using it.


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Re: Epic S3 glass?
Post 18 Feb 2018, 16:02 • #4 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/24/11
Posts: 1144
Location: Belgium
Let's not forget that there's a lot of resin in the matrix that makes up a rod's structure and the resin doesn't have a very high modulus so going down say from 50% resin to 35% resin will increase stiffness substantially.

No doubt CTS is putting out very high quality blanks.


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Re: Epic S3 glass?
Post 21 Feb 2018, 01:47 • #5 
New Member
Joined: 05/07/15
Posts: 3
Location: Sweden
Epics Swedish agent has this info on their page: http://www.reliantfishing.com/swift.html

The new reel seats looks nicer than the current ones imo.


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Re: Epic S3 glass?
Post 21 Feb 2018, 06:01 • #6 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/10/07
Posts: 1632
Location: The Netherlands
Jeez, the new seat looks a bit better but it's still very uninspiring...


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Re: Epic S3 glass?
Post 21 Feb 2018, 07:45 • #7 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/08/05
Posts: 3570
Location: Western PA
I like how the fiberglass spacer with black hardware looks. The other all metal seat? I'll pass.

I'm wondering if S3 leads to S4, S5, S6 and beyond. It's not the same old faster and faster thing that's plagued the graphite rod market, is it?


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Re: Epic S3 glass?
Post 21 Feb 2018, 07:53 • #8 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/10/07
Posts: 1632
Location: The Netherlands
My fear is that Swift/Epic is doing the same with fiberglass as what graphite suffered the past 20 years... That's a route to destruction.


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Re: Epic S3 glass?
Post 21 Feb 2018, 11:25 • #9 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 01/26/07
Posts: 1385
Location: Ada, Oklahoma
I did some searching regarding fiber types. The Zentron fibers used in some of the new Epic rods is a recent variation on S-glass. I found that S3 glass has a higher tensile modulus than S2, but I am not sure that Zentron is the same as S3. According to North Fork Composites, Zentron is a type of S2 glass fiber that can be blended with graphite fibers in building a rod. Also its' recovery from flex is roughly equal to that of graphite. Does sound a bit like another modulus race.

Larry


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Re: Epic S3 glass?
Post 21 Feb 2018, 12:42 • #10 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/27/14
Posts: 1501
Location: ON, Canada
You know, I wouldn’t be surprised if CTS was no longer making the S2 glass at all and Epic had to go along with the material change. I doubt there’s enough of a market to support CTS maintaining production of multiple glass materials.


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Re: Epic S3 glass?
Post 21 Feb 2018, 15:49 • #11 
Master Guide
Joined: 01/21/12
Posts: 462
Location: US-NY
While I'm sure they are fine rods, I think it's marketing. IMO, it's more the taper than the material.

Here's the best example I can think of... Scott Gs are a well regarded rod and the original g series had let's use for example a 904 for 20+ years. Do you really think Scott used the same graphite for 20+ years?


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Re: Epic S3 glass?
Post 21 Feb 2018, 16:44 • #12 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/10/07
Posts: 1632
Location: The Netherlands
Back then rod's 'shelf life' was much longer than now.
For instance the Sage RPL and LL series was sold for more than 10 years.


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Re: Epic S3 glass?
Post 21 Feb 2018, 17:23 • #13 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 01/26/07
Posts: 1385
Location: Ada, Oklahoma
Modulus of S3 is roughly 99 GPa.


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Re: Epic S3 glass?
Post 23 Feb 2018, 14:28 • #14 
Sport
Joined: 08/08/16
Posts: 42
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
Niclas wrote:
Epics Swedish agent has this info on their page: http://www.reliantfishing.com/swift.html

The new reel seats looks nicer than the current ones imo.


I wonder if they are going to be two piece rods...just judging from the pic on reliant’s website


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Re: Epic S3 glass?
Post 23 Feb 2018, 21:30 • #15 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/08/05
Posts: 3570
Location: Western PA
Canoeman1947 wrote:
Modulus of S3 is roughly 99 GPa.

Educate me. What's 99 GPa? How does it compare to other glass rods and graphite rods? It's hard to argue with new resins if they make the rods stronger and lighter. I'm apprehensive it means faster too. I hope not but my guess is they want to crack into the larger graphite market with "fast glass".


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Re: Epic S3 glass?
Post 24 Feb 2018, 08:09 • #16 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/10/09
Posts: 1651
Location: US-OH
Judging from their s2 glass offerings which they already call "fast-glass", I expect the s3 will be as fast or faster. But it doesn't have to be that way; as Novisor12 said, it's all about the taper. Take Scott F2 for example. They used the faster glass type to achieve extreme light weight instead of a fast action. Even in Epic's current s2 rods you see how taper radically affects speed of action. Their 480 is much more moderate than their 580.


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Re: Epic S3 glass?
Post 24 Feb 2018, 09:22 • #17 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/31/15
Posts: 1238
Location: Northern Rockies
Yes--my newly built CTS 376, which I assume is using the same new glass just under a different branding, is moderate in action (slightly slower than my Epic 686) but also very crisp and light in hand.

The real question is how they will adjust the tapers for the new material. Since Epic has maintained a desire to do both faster and more moderate actions across their line-up, I expect them to maintain that with the newly revised rods.

We shall see.


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Re: Epic S3 glass?
Post 24 Feb 2018, 15:44 • #18 
New Member
Joined: 05/07/15
Posts: 3
Location: Sweden
On reliant fishings instagram page I read that the new s3 rods are manufactured by the same factory as Loop and Hardy i.e. in Korea. And I would guess they use 3M:s nano resin.


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Re: Epic S3 glass?
Post 24 Feb 2018, 15:45 • #19 
New Member
Joined: 05/07/15
Posts: 3
Location: Sweden
Here is a link to the insta post: http://www.pictame.com/media/1647363978 ... 2199464607


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Re: Epic S3 glass?
Post 24 Feb 2018, 16:04 • #20 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/10/07
Posts: 1632
Location: The Netherlands
Meh.....


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Re: Epic S3 glass?
Post 27 Feb 2018, 12:52 • #21 
New Member
Joined: 03/02/13
Posts: 1
Location: Sweden
If you read the comments in this link you can see that CTS no longer made this blanks for Epic fly rods.


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Re: Epic S3 glass?
Post 30 Mar 2018, 15:29 • #22 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/02/13
Posts: 1173
Location: Milwaukee, WI
The new FastGlass rods are going to have a different ferrule called Sure-Fit which looks like a hybrid of slip-over and spigot. Or maybe I'm just really confused.

Anybody know anything about this?


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Re: Epic S3 glass?
Post 30 Mar 2018, 17:57 • #23 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/08/09
Posts: 850
Location: US-VA
JoeFriday wrote:
The new FastGlass rods are going to have a different ferrule called Sure-Fit which looks like a hybrid of slip-over and spigot. Or maybe I'm just really confused.

Anybody know anything about this?


The ferrules are tip over butt ferrules, the new terminology is probably meaning that the ferrules ground to a specific size for each rod taper. That would make easy replacement sections. The blank is un-sanded or semi-sanded and the ferrules are sanded (my guess to a spec'd size for each rod taper and section). I would assume the female ferrule is internally tapered to insure the fit to a specified dimension as well.
I'm not a spokesman, nor do I follow, nor am I affiliated... just specifying what I see and what has been done with other blanks from other manufacturers. Hope that takes away some confusion..


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Re: Epic S3 glass?
Post 30 Mar 2018, 22:37 • #24 
Sport
Joined: 07/17/12
Posts: 92
Location: US-OK
Somehow I'm finding the idea of the glass fibers using less resin, mixing with graphite, going from E-glass to S2 to S3 to S etc., a great move in the wrong direction. If someone wants a stiffer rod that's what graphite is for. I want to take the time to feel the quiet power build in my fiberglass and bamboo rods. I've got the graphite rods if that's what I want for a particular situation but don't want glass or bamboo trying to encroach on those actions. I have Wonderrods, Fenwick and Sage and enjoy taking them for a spin just to keep in touch with the rods I both learned on and still fish today in the right situation.


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Re: Epic S3 glass?
Post 31 Mar 2018, 07:12 • #25 
Guide
Joined: 08/19/13
Posts: 208
Location: Germany - Vogtland
Maybe the folks that are really interested in the news about Swifts Epic fiberglass should read the following:
https://swiftflyfishing.com/blogs/news/ ... update-faq

...this may prevent 'wildcatting' and wasting time with hypotheses.

Happy Easter!


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