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Puzzled with Loading
Post 24 Jul 2017, 22:39 • #1 
Master Guide
Joined: 08/10/15
Posts: 385
Location: US-NJ
So I have a fly rod.....glass....its a 5wt rod. It loads spot on with a Cortland 444 DT4F peach, far better than a 5wt line. Feels like the perfect match. BUT.....as you go up in weight with other lines, it struggles to load, and then works perfectly again with an Orvis Hydros WF7F Warmwater line. WTH?

I understand line tapers and line weight. But this one has me puzzled? It's very distinct.


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Re: Puzzled with Loading
Post 24 Jul 2017, 22:49 • #2 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/21/13
Posts: 704
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Are all the lines you're testing DTs or WFs of the same family of lines? In other words, all Rio Gold or all Orvis Hysros? The front tapers of lines have differing lengths and if that's all you're loading the rod with, you're going to get vastly different results.

Cheers
Graeme


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Re: Puzzled with Loading
Post 25 Jul 2017, 04:04 • #3 
Master Guide
Joined: 12/23/15
Posts: 654
Location: Texas bound
Hm. Maybe the same reason short skagit heads fish well? The OPST guys are throwing 175 grain lines on 3 weight rods now. And their rods don't look overloaded in their vids either roll casting, skagit casting, or overhead casting. Maybe that +3 line weight is the sweet spot for your rod that likes a 4 though mfg calls it a 5.

If it works, don't fix it. Like chocolate and chili peppers, Doritos and tunafish, or bacon cookies...


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Re: Puzzled with Loading
Post 25 Jul 2017, 06:10 • #4 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/16/05
Posts: 2537
Location: Georgia
What's the rod?


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Re: Puzzled with Loading
Post 25 Jul 2017, 08:46 • #5 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
You probably need more constants in the comparison such as one brand and model of DT line. The casting surface and conditions need to be relatively constant as well (just in case you are trying one set-up on a lawn one day, another on a driveway another, and a third on water, water being the best to really compare lines). The reels, too, should be similar, as different sizes and weights will alter the feedback the rod gives, and you may be changing your hand position from one to the other as well. To exaggerate a bit, any fly rod, but some 'glass actions in particular, will feel quite different if grasped near the top of the grip or at the lowermost corks with palm on the reel seat.


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Re: Puzzled with Loading
Post 25 Jul 2017, 09:56 • #6 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/16/05
Posts: 2537
Location: Georgia
Particularly good point about the reel. Years ago I tried to figure the best lines for several rods using five reels loaded with lines 4-7, all in the same two hours or so. I could tell the reels made a difference.


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Re: Puzzled with Loading
Post 25 Jul 2017, 12:00 • #7 
Master Guide
Joined: 08/10/15
Posts: 385
Location: US-NJ
It's a 7'6" 4/5 Cane and Silk, which I love. And it throws the 444DT perfectly. But I wanted to see what it would do with other lines and tried a WF5F Frequency Magnum, A WF5F Frequency Boost, A Hydros WF6F Warmwater, and a Hydros WF7F Warmwater. All on Martin MG7's. It threw the magnum nicely (which i fished on it through the winter with for nymphing), but smoothed out really nice with the 7wt.

Aside from the line brands, all else was the same.


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Re: Puzzled with Loading
Post 25 Jul 2017, 16:04 • #8 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/31/15
Posts: 1238
Location: Northern Rockies
Those lines also have shortish heads (in the mid-30s). Compared to a double-taper, how much would that contribute to the difference?


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Re: Puzzled with Loading
Post 25 Jul 2017, 18:32 • #9 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 09/18/09
Posts: 5561
Location: Relocated to the Drought Stricken West.
I won't pretend to offer a reason, but I will suggest coming back a different day and seeing if it is still the case. My opinions can change when I come back after even a few days. Especially if I cast a very different rod during that time.


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Re: Puzzled with Loading
Post 28 Jul 2017, 07:58 • #10 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19078
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
I can think of rods with sweet spots and rods with dead spots, and won't step on another's toes with this.
Loading greater line weight means loading farther down the rod.
Your rod may either have a dead spot for the line you don't like, or two particularly sweet spots for the lines you like.

I will add dead spots are often around ferrules.


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Re: Puzzled with Loading
Post 28 Jul 2017, 09:19 • #11 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
That is another sharp point that might help you explain the experience.

There is a corollary you could test out by varying the way you cast. It is hard to describe so I will just take a quick crack at it. Set aside the idea of a casting "stroke" and think of varying ways of applying motion to load (and unload in the forecast) the rod. Key elements are stiffness of the wrist, speed, and distribution of forearm and arm motion.

Well anyhow, it is simple to try to cast a rod off the tip, and not much harder to try to cast it off the butt. A rod can be cast off its mid section as well, but I find that more noticeable on the forecast (let's call that "reloading," to distinguish) than the pickup and backcast (loading).

Once you get the feel for doing this--you can mimic the motions with the rod alone--you can do it with the same line, which is the constant in this observation. Doing this may show you what part of the rod does the most work with that line. It may also show dead spots, if any, as described above.


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Re: Puzzled with Loading
Post 28 Jul 2017, 10:41 • #12 
Master Guide
Joined: 08/10/15
Posts: 385
Location: US-NJ
I can see that and never really thought of it in that manner. Depending on where a particular line weight loads the rod, if it's smack on a ferrule it would not feel well (for example). But a bit heavier line & a bit deeper into the rod and below that ferrule, it would load much nicer. That would explain perfectly what I am feeling.

Thanks all!


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Re: Puzzled with Loading
Post 28 Jul 2017, 11:39 • #13 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19078
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Not all ferrules are created equal


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Re: Puzzled with Loading
Post 28 Jul 2017, 14:38 • #14 
Master Guide
Joined: 08/10/15
Posts: 385
Location: US-NJ
Don't get me wrong now....I absolutely love this rod. I was pleasantly surprised to feel it load so well with a larger line.


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Re: Puzzled with Loading
Post 28 Jul 2017, 17:45 • #15 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/12
Posts: 1778
Location: Dubois Pa
I would add sometimes rods are designed with stiffer (dead) spots in areas to move the action to different areas of the rod.

Bob


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