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Post 07 Sep 2017, 06:01 • #26 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8933
Location: US-ME
Well, it is a production rod, not a custom rod with a custom grip to one user's hand, a user who knows all the potential uses that will be made of the rod, reels that will be used on it, and hand positions depending on type of casting, mending, and so on that will be done with the rod.

A manufacturer provides a grip that it judges most amenable to the most hands in the most fishing situations the rod will be purchased for. So there is a lot to be said for the longer, tapered grip, where anybody can likely find one comfortable position.

Let me risk a parallel. I consider the long, bizarro-shaped Fenwick grip one of the ugliest, uncomfortable, ill-fitting, downright weird fly rod grips ever designed. It is hard to believe it even was designed. You would have a hard job giving me one, even if it were fitted on a Fisher blank. I would remove and replace it immediately, ridding the rod of snowshoe webbing diamond weave decor in the process if that were on the rod as well. It is as if that grip and wrap were made for each other and deserve to be junked together.

Do you get the idea that I--one person--do not like Fenwick grips ? This would have and should have been utterly meaningless to Fenwick or any potential buyer at the time they foisted this grip upon me, which they didn't, because I didn't have to buy one, and many others did because they liked the whole design. Why, even I can't argue with success. The grip stood the test of the marketplace and customers liked it and still do. It is a darn good grip for many hands because they can find what feels like a custom position.

I gotta figure T&T has chosen a classic, versatile grip style for the same reasons.


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Post 07 Sep 2017, 06:40 • #27 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/10/07
Posts: 1632
Location: The Netherlands
Jeez, don't get too excited :eek


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Post 07 Sep 2017, 06:53 • #28 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8933
Location: US-ME
First coffee and laughing enough to about spit some out. Family, relatively safe, I think, in the path of the hurricane, but a tongue-in-cheek treatise on the shape of fly rod grips is a little stress relief.


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Post 07 Sep 2017, 08:28 • #29 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/10/07
Posts: 1632
Location: The Netherlands
That's what it's all about here. Relieving stress with a great hobby :)


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Post 08 Sep 2017, 08:41 • #30 
Master Guide
Joined: 12/31/13
Posts: 519
Location: US-Mount Pleasant, SC
scud dog wrote:
I like the T&T grips. I had as many as six of them during the 1980's and 1990's. I agree with Giogio. Longer grips are nice. They allow the hand room to roam. Helps cut down on hand cramps. The small grips may be good for women and other people with smaller hands but I view more cork as better. Value added! ;)


Only when the cork isn't worthless!!! :lol


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Post 08 Sep 2017, 12:14 • #31 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/03/07
Posts: 1152
Location: Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
I do like T&T grips, when they are not the pre-formed stuff they and most others are using today. Apparently the pre-formed grips do not bother most current buyers, since all the big manufacturers are using them. I'm with Whirlpool on Fenwick's grips too, but since I tend to hold the rod as far back as I can it doesn't bug me too much.


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Post 08 Sep 2017, 14:57 • #32 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/24/11
Posts: 1148
Location: Belgium
Jumping to Fenwicks I also grip it mostly on the reel seat as far down as possible - so does Jim Green in his casting video. Have to admit I am often also tempted to replace grip.


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Post 08 Sep 2017, 16:45 • #33 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/10/07
Posts: 1632
Location: The Netherlands
If I'm going to spend this amount of money I want the rod cast, feel and look the way I like it.
Most factory rods just don't fit the bill (anymore). So custom built is the way to go.
Maybe it's me becoming more critical.


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Post 08 Sep 2017, 17:27 • #34 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/14/15
Posts: 684
Location: NM
I'm just glad someone else doesn't like that diamond weave decoration on Fenwicks!


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Post 09 Sep 2017, 09:49 • #35 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/08/05
Posts: 3570
Location: Western PA
Marty Romeo wrote:
scud dog wrote:
I like the T&T grips. I had as many as six of them during the 1980's and 1990's. I agree with Giogio. Longer grips are nice. They allow the hand room to roam. Helps cut down on hand cramps. The small grips may be good for women and other people with smaller hands but I view more cork as better. Value added! ;)


Only when the cork isn't worthless!!! :lol

The cork on my T&T's are top notch. They're also over 20 years old. Are they using cucky cork now?
BTW...I like the Fenwick grips AND I think the braids are cool. My hands are fairly large. I appreciate larger grips. I'd rather have a comfortable grip for fishing than get hand cramps while "posing" with a rod that has some tiny child-sized grip.
Worse grip ever: Orvis 704 with the dual locking rings.


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Post 10 Sep 2017, 18:42 • #36 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 08/14/06
Posts: 1229
Location: Panther City, Texas
ibookje wrote:
If I'm going to spend this amount of money I want the rod cast, feel and look the way I like it.
Most factory rods just don't fit the bill (anymore). So custom built is the way to go.
Maybe it's me becoming more critical.


I feel the same. I have my own ideas about how a rod should fish as well as look. I like being able to work with the builder or buy a stock rod from a small rod maker I admire (ie Kenney, Kabuto, Barclay etc). The T&Ts I have are vintage graphite and IMO exceptional in looks and fishability. I also prefer spigot ferrules to the point that tip over ferrules are a deal breaker for me so I will most likely not be buying any modern T&Ts.


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Post 13 Sep 2017, 01:39 • #37 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/24/11
Posts: 1148
Location: Belgium
A vintage graphite T&T Parr -Lite 7' 3wt just sold on the auction site for $577. I guess that means there is appreciation for the small grip and cap and ring downlocking reel seat.


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Post 13 Oct 2017, 10:40 • #38 
Sport
Joined: 10/22/16
Posts: 44
Location: Winthrop WA
Just tuned into this after a lengthy hiatus. As a former T&T Pro Staff member, and a guy who knows many of they guys at the shop including Tom Dorsey, Nevill (the owner), Joe Goodspeed, and John Carpenter, I can maybe shed a little light on this grip subject. It is not widely known that T&T is also a full custom shop. They will build just about any grip you can think of, just ask. Short, long, fat, skinny, and any shape you prefer, just ask. I've even had them modify the grip on one of my spey rods with tremendous success. And with respect to pre-formed grips...NOPE. They do not ever use pre-formed grips, all individually glued rings turned on the blank. They use the best cork available, but unfortunately cork quality varies from year to year and that is something that all the manufacturers have to live with. What I can say is that of the dozens of new T&T rods I've handled, cast, and fished, NOBODY uses better cork. I've even met a custom builder on the river who got pissed when he saw my rods and said he could not buy cork as nice as that on my T&T's off the line. Hoping to pick up a Lotic for myself in the near future.

Tom


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Post 13 Oct 2017, 17:23 • #39 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/02/13
Posts: 1173
Location: Milwaukee, WI
I just got home from my first outing with the Lotic 744 outfitted with a 406 DT4. I didn't have a lot of success due to weather conditions and lack of risers. But I will say that it's one helluva rod. I was on a small and very technical stream, throwing nothing but dries. It's a stream where open loops will mean a lot of flies in the brush. And being able to put a fly within a foot of your target will mean the difference between a fish or nothing.

It was an interesting day of fishing. I saw exactly 5 rises in the two hours I was on the water. When I first got my feet wet I saw a rise about 40 feet up from me. I edged up to get a better drift and and dropped a parachute PMD a foot ahead of the last rise. Immediately I had a fish on. And two seconds later I had a slack line. I moved upstream for two hours without another hit, only seeing a few rises in spots I couldn't reach without dapping.

In spite of the lack of aquatic cooperation, the Lotic was dropping my flies exactly where I was aiming. I mean, within 2-3 inches, most of the time. I was able to focus more on my in-air mends than I ever am with other rods because I knew the fly was going where I was thinking. The term 'extension of your arm' would be very fitting for this rod.

Another very pleasant element to this rod is the weight. It's among the lightest rods I own, but is extremely well balanced. Sometimes light rods can be twitchy. This one is buttery smooth. And at the same time lets you feel it loading throughout the cast.

It's got a definite progressive feel, but it's not too aggressive or stiff in the butt. All in all, I'd say it feels just right. It reminds me a lot of the T&T LPS that I was very fond of during my early graphite days. After I converted over to glass-only, I missed my LPS, but knew that the Heirloom wasn't a comparable rod. Too heavy, and honestly, I'm not a fan of that green. Whereas I love the Lotic blue.

So, after two hours of all 'fishing' and no 'catching' I snuck back around to where I started. I knew the spot where the first fish had hunkered in and I suspected he would give me another chance. I lined up another parachute PMD and dropped it in exactly the same spot. The fly barely touched the water when that same brown hit it as hard as I've ever seen a brown hit a dry in my life. This time I kept the line tight and brought a nice fat 10-incher to hand. My apology for the lack of photos. But it was a fish worthy of christening a rod I've waited 10 years for. I'm glad it gave me another chance, just as I'm glad T&T took another chance on a glass rod.

The Lotic is well worth what they are asking. I'm not one to collect all the models of a rod series, but this would be one that I might consider. I was told by Joe Goodspeed that he thought the 4wt was the sweet spot in the lineup, and it definitely suits me. But having cast this one makes me wonder what the 3 and 5 wts are like.

Incidentally, "Lotic" means: (of organisms or habitats) inhabiting or situated in rapidly moving fresh water. Very fitting!


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Post 13 Oct 2017, 18:59 • #40 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/26/14
Posts: 3588
Location: US-MN
Thanks for the review Joe! Sounds like a keeper!


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Post 15 Oct 2017, 09:14 • #41 
Guide
Joined: 12/14/16
Posts: 116
Location: Poland
Nice looking rod, I love that deep blue color


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Post 18 Oct 2017, 18:16 • #42 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/08/05
Posts: 3570
Location: Western PA
Joe Friday, you have me tempted to get one now after that review.


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Post 19 Oct 2017, 06:43 • #43 
Master Guide
Joined: 06/28/16
Posts: 930
Location: Northern WI
Sounds like a great rod but I just wish it had a downlocker.


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Post 22 Oct 2017, 00:53 • #44 
Sport
Joined: 10/22/16
Posts: 44
Location: Winthrop WA
Char hunter,

Just ask them for a down locker. You might be amazed at what they will provide if you ask


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