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Rod conversion
Post 01 Jun 2018, 20:16 • #1 
Sport
Joined: 05/22/18
Posts: 48
Location: US-CA
Here is my current line up of rods:

Scott G 9’ 2/1 4wt. San Francisco rod.
Ca. 1976. 1st 9’ 4wt. model
ever made (per Scott). Original
bag and case. Excellent+.
Scott: F2: Glass 6’6” 3/1 3wt.
Original bag & case. New.
Winston: IMX Graphite Tom Morgan
Favorite rod.
8’ 2/1 4wt. Mint.
Burkheimer: Vintage Graphite
9’ 4/1 5wt. New.
Vintage Graphite.
8’3” 4/1 4wt. New.
I want to convert from graphite to glass. Any suggestions?


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Re: Rod conversion
Post 01 Jun 2018, 21:02 • #2 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/16/05
Posts: 2539
Location: Georgia
Where are you? What waters do you fish? What sort of flies?

If you really want to replace everything with glass, you've chosen those configurations for reasons, and those considerations won't really change.
Although some different considerations might arise. For instance, lots of trout graphite guys don't expect a 6 to be any fun with dries, or smaller fish, find out they're wrong, and end up getting some more versatility.


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Re: Rod conversion
Post 02 Jun 2018, 01:47 • #3 
Master Guide
Joined: 05/20/12
Posts: 984
Location: Eugene, OR
I agree with Upstreeam. Especially in vintage glass — 6 weight is sort of the center of the universe for trout rods. For a long time, I wanted lots of my 6 weights to be 5s, and I wasted fishing time underlining good rods.
That being said, a 7’ or 7.5’ 5/6 is as good a place as any to start. Lots of options in that configuration.


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Re: Rod conversion
Post 02 Jun 2018, 07:20 • #4 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2513
Location: South of Joplin
My go anywhere/fish anything recipe is 8'-7 or 8wt-DTF; the DT line has several feet of ~3wt line before tapering up to the level 8 main line and with a self build tapered leader offers a range of versatility. If the rod is soft enough in the tip and stout in the butt (as many old glass were/are) it can go from brookies to bass. I can't cast well enough to use streamers with <6wt or bulky bugs with a 6wt. And, I don't want to carry several outfits, or limit me to one fly type for the day. The 8' is long enough to mend or roll cast with and short enough to fish under most trees.


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Re: Rod conversion
Post 02 Jun 2018, 09:17 • #5 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/22/11
Posts: 1720
Location: US-TX
Some mighty fine rods there. The F2 is a mighty fine glass rod. What exactly are you looking for in glass?


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Re: Rod conversion
Post 02 Jun 2018, 11:48 • #6 
Sport
Joined: 05/22/18
Posts: 48
Location: US-CA
Upstreeam wrote:
Where are you? What waters do you fish? What sort of flies?

If you really want to replace everything with glass, you've chosen those configurations for reasons, and those considerations won't really change.
Although some different considerations might arise. For instance, lots of trout graphite guys don't expect a 6 to be any fun with dries, or smaller fish, find out they're wrong, and end up getting some more versatility.



I fish small and medium sized streams in the Pacific NW. the flies are mostly #14 and #16 dries.


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Re: Rod conversion
Post 02 Jun 2018, 11:53 • #7 
Sport
Joined: 05/22/18
Posts: 48
Location: US-CA
ARReflections wrote:
Some mighty fine rods there. The F2 is a mighty fine glass rod. What exactly are you looking for in glass?



Seriously, I don’t know. That’s why I’m asking for suggestions. Makers/builders, lengths, etc.


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Re: Rod conversion
Post 02 Jun 2018, 13:28 • #8 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 09/18/09
Posts: 5568
Location: Relocated to the Drought Stricken West.
I wouldn't sell any of those rods until you get a replacement. The Scott's and Winston especially.


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Re: Rod conversion
Post 02 Jun 2018, 13:31 • #9 
Guide
Joined: 04/20/12
Posts: 230
Location: US-CA
Sounds like you "got religion"!

By "convert" do you mean replace or add to? I would encourage the latter. There is a fiberglass bias here, obviously, but many here own and love their graphite sticks too. The Scott G904 you have is one of the nicest rods I own in any material. It would be one of the last to go.

Not to be discouraging, it actually sounds like you have your needs covered for the water you fish. But if you want to compare a really fine glass rod with the 8' 4wt Morgan graphite, for instance, I would suggest the Steffen 8' 3/4. I have the 7'9" 3/4 and it is an amazing taper. I haven't tried a ********* Western Glass rod, but they get top reviews here. You could put his 8'9" 5wt up against the Burkheimer 9' 5wt and see how it feels.

Anyway, welcome to the wonderful world of glass but don't throw the baby out with the bath water!


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Re: Rod conversion
Post 02 Jun 2018, 14:02 • #10 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/16/05
Posts: 2539
Location: Georgia
Since you fish those waters with just one rod under 8’ I assume you feel they don’t need shorter. For my small waters I’ve got a number of under 8’ 3 & 4 wts., although those shorter than the Scott don’t get used much. If you decide to look that way I’d recommend the Barclay 72 or 68, his older 7’2” 3 wt., any Morgan, a FF70, or (extrapolating now) Paddock 7’ 5 wt., Steffen 7’, Kenney 7’3”. And I’ve never fished a Japanese rod but 7’ 3 wt seems to a wheelhouse there.


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Re: Rod conversion
Post 02 Jun 2018, 14:19 • #11 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/22/11
Posts: 1720
Location: US-TX
Redsadie1 wrote:
ARReflections wrote:
Some mighty fine rods there. The F2 is a mighty fine glass rod. What exactly are you looking for in glass?



Seriously, I don’t know. That’s why I’m asking for suggestions. Makers/builders, lengths, etc.
Honestly your current rods and lack of why suggest you are more of a collector versus user. Nothing wrong with that.

That F2 should give a great understanding of glass characteristics. If you are able to say what you like or do not like about the Scott F2 the we can help discern a little better. Your graphites have good tapers too.

I also suggest attending a conclave if you can to get a good idea of different glass.

A Steffen is a fantastic s-glass rod but different feel than a Morgan glass or other e-glass variety like Larry Kenny rods (worked at Scott). Steffen is also a lot lighter. Some like a heavier feel rod that may feel like a noodle on wiggle test but magical with a line on the water.

Maybe a Fenwick, Phillipson, Fisher, Berkley Gowdy, System SA, Cummings, Barclay, Lamiglas, Airrite, Kenny, St Croix, Conolon, etc.... my point being there is a lot of good glass.


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Re: Rod conversion
Post 02 Jun 2018, 15:05 • #12 
Master Guide
Joined: 05/20/12
Posts: 984
Location: Eugene, OR
Don’t over think it. Get a Fenwick FF75 or 756, and take it from there.
Or an FF806, or an FF70-4. Or an FF79.
But don’t over think it. Ha ha.


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R ane: Rod conversion
Post 02 Jun 2018, 19:01 • #13 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8933
Location: US-ME
If you stay with those line weights, keep a few of your longer graphite rods--just in case you don't get used to the more typical lengths of great 'glass for similar weights. Start with an 8' 5 weight, then a 7 or 7/2' 4 weight. Phase those in--they are also working you up from the little Scott 'glass-- and see what you think. Along with the Scott, that would make a good trio to explore lighter line 'glass.


Why rush to replace all? Some of us would know in a heartbeat what graphite to lose--for me it would be all of them except maybe the early Scott graphite, which I would never use--but they are a good assortment as well. If you start with glass in the sweet spot I suggested, you will have lots of choices and your experience will then tell you what you want to swap into next, such as an 8 1/2' six weight.


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Re: Rod conversion
Post 02 Jun 2018, 21:23 • #14 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello
Welcome To Fiberglass Fly Rodders.
I Really Like The Quiver Your Drawing From Now.
Before we get down to brass tacks I gotta few questions.

First off why Glass and why not Bamboo or Boron ???
How Many Days A Year Do You Fish ?
What are your goals?, What do you want from Fiberglass that you can't get or your not getting from the rods your fishing.??
How long you been fly fishing ? Whats your home water ? Where do you live ?
How many glass rods have you cast,what rods did you like most and what rods did you like least and why ???

Sorry for all the questions,Fitting You With the right glass rods is like fitting you with a new wardrobe.

The Best We Can Hope For Is To Find A Rod Maker Or Collector In Your Neck Of The Woods.

Tight Lines And The Right Tools For The Tightest Loops
Andy M


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Re: Rod conversion
Post 03 Jun 2018, 08:43 • #15 
Master Guide
Joined: 06/28/16
Posts: 930
Location: Northern WI
Get a Made in Cali Fenwick. Anything between 7 and 8 feet. You won’t be disappointed.


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Re: Rod conversion
Post 03 Jun 2018, 11:56 • #16 
Sport
Joined: 05/22/18
Posts: 48
Location: US-CA
Lunker75 wrote:
I agree with Upstreeam. Especially in vintage glass — 6 weight is sort of the center of the universe for trout rods. For a long time, I wanted lots of my 6 weights to be 5s, and I wasted fishing time underlining good rods.
That being said, a 7’ or 7.5’ 5/6 is as good a place as any to start. Lots of options in that configuration.



Why do you think 6wt, is “the center of the universe for trout rods”?


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Re: Rod conversion
Post 03 Jun 2018, 15:09 • #17 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8933
Location: US-ME
In fiberglass rods of the heyday, the 8' 6 weight was the all around fly rod, although you wouldn't argue the point much 6 " either way in length, or 7 weight in line weight. It is still the center of the universe in 'glass rods and in all around capability, from the time when specialization of tools was much less the orientation of fly fishing, as opposed to refinements of technique with one or two versatile rods.


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Re: Rod conversion
Post 03 Jun 2018, 15:19 • #18 
Master Guide
Joined: 05/20/12
Posts: 984
Location: Eugene, OR
Couldn’t have said it better, and yes I was speaking from a vintage rod perspective. Refinements of casting technique, and attention to the leader length and diameter will get me where I want to go most times. 6 weight is the most functional line for a general cross-section of the fishing that I have done.


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Re: Rod conversion
Post 04 Jun 2018, 08:54 • #19 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/24/12
Posts: 493
Location: Portland, Oregon
Gotta agree with this. Its taken me YEARS to realize, but if I can't seem to get the fly where I want it, a leader or casting stroke adjustment almost always fixes the problem. By the way, my cousin fishes an FF806 almost exclusively, whether its a large river or tiny mountain stream and generally catches more fish than I do and he doesn't have the problem of "which rod will I use today" like I do. I have a nice 806 in the closet that doesn't get fished enough. Hmmm......where is my copy of Walden???

David


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Re: Rod conversion
Post 04 Jun 2018, 12:31 • #20 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2513
Location: South of Joplin
I thought 7s were a lot more common than 6s?


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Re: Rod conversion
Post 04 Jun 2018, 14:54 • #21 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/24/11
Posts: 1148
Location: Belgium
If you like Scotts then I can happily point you in the direction of Larry Kenney. Start with the 835 and 794. Think about the 824 and 836 as well. Get a Paddock 705 because it's a great small stream rod.


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Re: Rod conversion
Post 04 Jun 2018, 17:52 • #22 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8933
Location: US-ME
Trev, it could be 7 was about as common or more across the 'glass era, which takes in a decade or more of the common D and C line designations, approximately 6 and 7 weights. Such lines were common, and often rods in the 7 ' to 8 1/2' range were unmarked, and pretty much assumed to be for one or the other, and probably both. That's partly why I said you couldn't argue much with calling 7 weights the all around rig of the time. Gradually, the typical range of fly sizes fished expanded at the "small" end, so the 6 weight, then the 5 and 4 became more and more appealing in the early seventies and as graphite developed. I think that's why today it would also be hard to argue that a 7 1/2 or 8' 5 weight wouldn't be the center for a lot of fishing. I guess to know for sure back then, we'd need sales stats and production numbers, and, at least before the mid60s weight-based designations phased in, the most common lengths sold. Most of us are going on our favorite catalogs, memories of the shops we visited, and/or of iconic rods like the FF806. Someone with an old stash of Orvis catalogs could verify or correct my recollection that the Orvis 'glass "all arounder," was, indeed, a 7 weight. I suggested a 6 to the OP because it is pretty much a guaranteed sweet spot for glass that might indicate the direction to go for the next rod, and it doesn't force out any of the nice assortment of graphite rods but would transition well from several of them.

When an angler gets into 'glass rods for the 6 weight lines and up, especially if accustomed to graphite for 4 or less, the different properties of the material and the casting/line handling that goes with it become more apparent. Now the momentum of a heavier weight is greater factor in casting feel, control and distance, the lower line speed a factor in delicacy of presentation (as opposed to the tight-loop/high-line speed needed to deliver a lighter, more aerodynamic projectile the same distance carrying the same "weight"/resistance of a fly).

I guess we could just swap out some of the fine graphites above for some fine 'glass 4 and 3 weights, but I think there is more to it than that for getting the best out of a collection of 'glass rods.


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Re: Rod conversion
Post 04 Jun 2018, 18:50 • #23 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2513
Location: South of Joplin
Whrlpool, I was simply going by memory, and where I was in southern New England 8wt & 9wts were the most common 8' 8'6" rods and the 7wts were seldom seen, lesser wts were known only from catalogs or talk around the fly shops. The guys I learned from were one rod and one reel fishermen that might fish trout in the morning and salt in the afternoon or switch waters and aim at LMB or pickerel & pike. Glass was still the rule there when I moved away in '84, I did see a few carbon rods, but as recall they were mostly held by vacationers.
But in passing through other parts and reading magazines I had the notion that 7 wts were the rule in most places. I didn't keep any catalogs or magazines from that era, so can't say definitively. was not intending to be argumentative as much as inquisitive. Center of the universe in fishing is highly subjective. And in my clumsy hands 25 grains hardly makes a difference.

If I was the OP I would not get rid of any of those rods, conversion is the last thing I'd do, no, this should be an expansion deal. He needs to add a rod and then another.


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Re: Rod conversion
Post 05 Jun 2018, 07:49 • #24 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Good Morning
Wow this sure has turned into a popularity contest ! Center Of The Universe aside this person still hasn't gotten any real help in determining what's going to work best for his or her needs.

Honestly I can't imagine how Burkheimer missed the mark,usually he's pretty dam good at fitting the rod to the client,another thing is how do you know those Burkheimer rods aren't the bees knees, you have them both listed as NEW have you taken them out of the tubes ??

See your not really serious about getting the actual help needed or you would have answered my questions.
That's okay you guys can go ahead wasting each others time with your popularity contest while those amazing Burkheimer's sit in the closet.

I'd be willing to bet if you took the time to really get acquainted with either of of those rods you'd probably look no further.
Id go double or nothing that if you went up a line weight with the rods you would get more of a Fiberglass feel from the rods, deeper flexing,You should ask Burkheimer I'd imagine he's agree.

Glass is an amazing rod making material, however an amazing fly rod can be made from any material, the difference is very often the Maker and not necessarily always the material.

Tight Lines And Custom Made Loops
Andy M


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Re: Rod conversion
Post 05 Jun 2018, 13:40 • #25 
Master Guide
Joined: 10/07/11
Posts: 693
Location: SE MA
I'm firmly in the camp of The Glass Master. There are many great graphite rods out there, and your battery of rods contains several of them. If you want glass, settle on a couple to ADD to what you have. After time, you can cull the ones you don't use.


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