Hi,
I am thinking about a line for my Epic Bandit. Need something to go really deep. This is about fishing Norwegian fjords, mostly slowly trolling. I have some experience with this. Used 30 ft of T14 on a mono running line, but my buddy had an old Teeny full sinking Spey line on his 8 weight that just went deeper and caught more fish. The Airflo Sniper Sink 7 that I also tried did not cut it. I am searching for something that might still be somewhat castable, so 250ft T-17 is rather not what I am searching for.
I searched around the internet and this forum a bit, but it did not help as much as I hoped. Therefore, I would like to draw on the hivemind of this knowledgeable forum with my specific question.
Which line goes down the fastest?

Fastest? A full-sinking line in which the whole line has a uniform sink rate.

I would have suggested that you consider a sinking line made with two sections that have different sink rates, like that Airflo Sniper you tried. That one, if I remember correctly, has something like a 25-30ish foot head that will sink at 3 or 7 inches per second, and then the running line is intermediate which will sink a little. Those kinds of lines are a lot more enjoyable to cast in my experience but since you already tried that it sounds like your only option is a full sinkif you gotta get down, you gotta get down. Your only option really is something like a Rio Deep 7. I don't know the Teeny line that bulldog mentioned but their website says it sinks at 7ips so the Rio would be about the same. Airflo's Sixth Sense line is also in that range, I think. Honestly I haven't heard of any sinking lines that would get down more than those. People who fish lakes have told me they get down like 30 ft with those lines.

If those don't cut it...I wonder if you could take something like a T-17 head and connect it to a lighter sinking line that would serve as the running line. Never heard of anyone doing that but I'm sure someone out there has played around with the idea.

no one ever listens, though.
I caught suspended Snapper at an offshore platform on my TS-350.


It's not just the grain weight or published sink rate of the Teeny line.
It's the spliced long shooting head construction and the ultra fine diameter that makes All The Difference.
First thing a sinking line has to do is break the surface tension before it can begin to sink.
while the others are trying to sink, Teeny is already there.
The same way Teeny slices through the air, it slices through the water.

Airflo makes wonderful slime lines if you want to fish knee-to-waist deep.
The rest of the $$$$ on paper don't matter.
All that crap is just made to sell - Teeny is made to fish.
This means something.

These I targeted at 8' deep in a fast river on T-130 (they stack at the eddy above a submerged gravel bar - they also won't hit a stripped fly - I set up the drift to swing in front of their faces)

no, that is not correct - I've fished full sinking lines, the only thing they add is they hang up around your feet. Too many of them sink at your feet before they sink at the tip - that breaking the surface tension thing.
used sink tip where they're appropriate, high-sticking deep chutes, which I can also do with a Teeny line.
But nothing goes down - or fishes - like a Teeny line.
I love my Airflo slime lines in the salt flats - my absolute favorite there, controlling depth mid-thigh deep over grass, and fish them more than floating lines, don't have to use a weighted fly, which yo-yo like bait never do.
but I don't have a reason to try the Airflo deeper sinking line, because I'm covered on Teeny to TS-450.
I've consistently shot my TS-250 140', including that much backing.

Contact Teeny and find out if they will ship to you.
http://www.jimteeny.com/
You should have already answered your own question by describing how your buddy's line fishes.

Subsurface fishing is entirely by feel. The larger the line, the greater the friction on the line, and the less you feel.
I often fish my teeny lines slowly crawling the bottom - there are fish that will follow and pick up the fly only at rest (white bass, trout), and can feel that with the teeny line.
and the fish hangs onto the fly because they don't feel resistance from the teeny line

I've caught 50 white bass on consecutive casts fishing this way (quit because the number was round), and 40 flounder on consecutive casts - could have caught more flounder, but it was cold and 10-mi boat ride back home - and my friends were getting tired of watching me.

new doesn't make it better - only the advertising is better

every time the topic comes up, people state/argue T-series lines are sink tips.
They have never used one, and really don't have a clue.
The tiny running line is buoyant around your legs when you're preparing to shoot, but the weight of the head takes it under, making a T-series line the straightest possible line from your rod tip to hook point.
Think about it - weight takes nylon monofilament under, which is just as buoyant.

I was mostly speculating when I said a full sinking line might take you deeper so that could be easily be wrong.

But here's something to consider, and I bring this up not to be argumentative but because I'm genuinely curious. I figured that a full sinking line, or at least a sinking head/intermediate running line might give you a straighter connection between fly and rod tip which would get your fly deeper for a given length of line.

Throw out the full sinking line for now and just consider a floating vs intermediate running line, for the sake of this discussion. The fact that the Teeny's running line is floating rather than intermediate is the only reason I wonder if a different setup could get you deeper.

With a sinking head/floating running line, the buoyancy of the running line will be pulling the sinking head up at least a little. Consider the Rio MOW tips for you spey casters out there. For those who are unfamiliar, they are designed for skagit setups and basically consist of some section of sinking line spliced to some section floating or intermediate line. The sink/float tips basically end up with kind of a bow shape between rod tip and fly. Sinking section wants to sink, floating section wants to float. This was by design so you could do things like swing a fly through a bucket behind a rock without your line getting hung up on the rock. The sink/intermediate tips give a straighter connection between the rod tip and fly because the intermediate section is not fighting the sinking section as much. That is obviously not a technical explanation at all but I can't think of a better way to put it.

There's a diagram in this article that shows the idea:
http://outdoorsandnature.com/fishing/imow-mow-tips/

But...those MOW tips are like 10' in total length so they'll be, for example, 7.5' sink/2.5' float/intermediate. And perhaps more importantly the sinking and floating sections are about the same diameter and mass. So not a great comparison, perhaps. With a 30' sinking head and super thin running line maybe the running line's buoyant force is negligible, especially if you're only trying to get down like 20'. The more I think about it the more correct that last sentence sounds.

Gah, I might have to get one of those Teeny lines myself just to experiment with. It's all speculation without real data, after all.

Sadly, the teeny lines have been out of stock at most shops for a long time. I recently had to replace my t-130. I managed to find one, but doesn’t seem to sink as fast as the old one.

something else with sinking lines, you shouldn't be using long leaders - 4-5', maybe add 18" tippet.
Teeny makes great 4' tapered T-series leaders - in freshwater, I attach them with a zap splice, and the line glides over any bottom.
In the salt for toothy fish like jacks and mackerel, a 5' butt of 30-lb Mason with 2' of 12-15-lb braided wire works great - attach your fly with a crimp sleeve.

I have found the T-130 to be the most useful all around Teeny line in the 5-6 wt range. I have used this line for years for everything from White bass in central Texas to bottom hugging browns in Montana.

Where can you get these Teeny lines? their site says 'out of stock' and doesn't indicate that they intend to restock?

There is news from my buddy from Norway. He used the Airflo sixth sense Di8 full sinking. He said it was going down faster than the Teeny spey line and that it was great from the belly boat. It did not cast very well though because the sinking running line was so heavy. He said he would not like to fish it from shore, but from the boat it was the fastest sinker he has had so far.

I think I understand the points made above. It totally makes sense that a floating running line might slow down the sink. However, maybe the Teeny lines still sink faster than most because Teeny somehow managed to keep the density of the head higher and the diameter smaller than the others and the small diameter running line might not matter much for average density. Regarding diameter, a smaller diameter at the same weight has a twofold effect, it increases density and reduces friction. Might especially play a role when trolling because friction increases with speed. In order to smartass: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokes%27s_law Cylinders (fly lines) are of course no spheres, but I think it is a starting point.

That the Teeny lines cast very well seems common ground. That was also my impression from the full sinking spey line that casted surprisingly well on the single hander. They seem to be tough to come by though. Seems to me that they are not produced any more.

Anybody in for buying all the fast sinkers and doing a shootout? I think direct comparison under fairly standardized conditions is the way to go. Yellowstone Angler's, are you listening?

Thanks for all the input

I wonder how all the previously mentioned options compare to the old trick of using a length of lead-core trolling line to make a shooting head. Of course it is an abomination to cast, but it does sink fast.